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Author Topic: Splice output cables of matched speakers?  (Read 1293 times)

s3gle

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Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« on: May 05, 2018, 05:02:52 AM »
hello,

I'm looking for advice on splicing the output cables from fairly matching rated amps with the same speakers [celestion 12s]

I have had speaker issues with a 2x12 Stage 160 that is Not a ripped cone. when plugged in, they have a very audible hum that's harsh and responds to input frequency. I pulled the amp down on stage on accident one night.

I now since use the amp to preamp my cybertwin with the same speakers. the CT is rated 130 watts, and the Stage is rated 160 obv. what I'm trying to do is, could I splice the connection to the CT's speakers, to additional cable running to the Stage? Before we get too technical with model specs, I believe all speakers are running at 8 ohms. my guess is that the splice will create 16 ohms per output, which should be ok? if I recall correctly

Any reason why not will be appreciated

thanks for your time if you read!

phatt

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2018, 07:01:10 AM »
If I'm reading this right you want 2 Amplifiers to run the same speakers at the same time?

If so,,,
The result would be instant destruction of one or both amps. :duh xP
Not a good idea 8|
Phil.

s3gle

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2018, 09:02:44 AM »
no you're not reading it right.

I'm not sure how 2 combo amps running their own speakers would cause destruction outright but anyway

as I said I'm feeding the pre's of the broken one to the Cybertwin. I want to splice the speaker connection of the CT to the same Celestions in the other amp to gain 2 speakers, for a total of 4, under one master volume.  I think it just increases ohms from 8 to 16, which is just quieter.... I think.  Anyway thanks again
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 09:06:19 AM by s3gle »

DrGonz78

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2018, 04:36:21 PM »
I believe all speakers are running at 8 ohms. my guess is that the splice will create 16 ohms per output, which should be ok?

It depends on how you will wire the splice, parallel or series. Typically wiring two 8 ohm loads in series becomes 16 ohms and wiring two 8 ohm loads in parallel will become 4 ohms. On the stage amp how are the speakers wired, parallel or series? Also, what is the impedance of each speaker separately on both amps? Do you have ohms meter to check DC resistance of the connections that you intend on creating? I wouldn't power anything up until you really suss this one out. 
“A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.” -Albert Einstein

g1

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2018, 05:25:19 PM »
The Cyber Twin is stereo, each speaker is driven by a separate power amp section.
So each of the cyber twin speakers will have to be wired to one of the stage 160 speakers, and in series so you get 16 ohm total per channel of the cyber twin.

First, to prevent any damage to the stage 160 amp section, disconnect all the wires from the stage 160 speakers.  Tape up the bare ends of the wires that go to the amp chassis so they can't accidentally touch anything (which could blow the amp).

Now disconnect the "-" speaker terminal on one of the cyber twin speakers.  From that speaker - terminal, connect to the + terminal of one of the stage160 speakers.  Now connect the - of that stage160 speaker back to the wire you disconnected from the cyber twin speaker.
Do the same for the second speaker of each.

s3gle

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2018, 09:55:07 PM »
The Cyber Twin is stereo, each speaker is driven by a separate power amp section.
So each of the cyber twin speakers will have to be wired to one of the stage 160 speakers, and in series so you get 16 ohm total per channel of the cyber twin.

First, to prevent any damage to the stage 160 amp section, disconnect all the wires from the stage 160 speakers.  Tape up the bare ends of the wires that go to the amp chassis so they can't accidentally touch anything (which could blow the amp).

Now disconnect the "-" speaker terminal on one of the cyber twin speakers.  From that speaker - terminal, connect to the + terminal of one of the stage160 speakers.  Now connect the - of that stage160 speaker back to the wire you disconnected from the cyber twin speaker.
Do the same for the second speaker of each.

OK this is exactly what I was thinking. the stage cables go from +/- clips to 1/4" males so they disconnect completely without cutting. I'll check with a/v about getting the wires that are appropriate. Stage is 8 ohms but that should be no issue with 16 ohms total if I go series,  which I think is your instruction? 8 ohms per speaker at half usual wattage, each pair independent bc of stereo so 16 ohms as usual for CT stereo outputs? I just need 4 wires with speaker clips to complete the whole stereo round, not that I care if 4x12 is stereo. original Cybertwin wires probably won't reach if I do as you say exactly,  reason for needing 4 and probably graft the crossovers that aren't new. This is sounding really easy and cheap, really appreciate it.

I have YouTube clips of my stuff, I'm just starting to really pursue my solo songwriting,  mostly retro and surf but I can do what I want. if anybody wants to hear.

thanks again, will repost when I have checked with a meter and succeeded,  hopefully soon but I'm in line at repair for Jazzmaster wiring that also needs adjustment for in series on the rhythm bout, so can't say which will get done first but I'm really glad to get replies right now
« Last Edit: May 06, 2018, 05:34:11 AM by s3gle »

g1

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2018, 08:39:09 PM »
I just need 4 wires with speaker clips to complete the whole stereo round, not that I care if 4x12 is stereo. original Cybertwin wires probably won't reach if I do as you say exactly,  reason for needing 4 and probably graft the crossovers that aren't new.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'crossovers' here?
Otherwise, I think you get the idea.
4 wires, 6 female spade lug connectors, 2 male.  The male ends will go into the wires that get disconnected from the cybertwin speakers. All other ends will go on speaker terminal lugs.
Note that spade lug connectors come in different widths and that is what you should measure, to get the correct spade lug connectors.

s3gle

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2018, 09:44:15 PM »
yeah,  I'm working on getting a set of 0.25" crimp male/female quick disconnects ASAP because I realize to anyone familiar, this is easy and cheap,

by crossovers I meant any new wiring exiting one combo cabinet and crossing over to the other. I realize the CT is stereo and shouldn't be wired to have more than 2 speakers at 8 ohms or one at 16 per channel. no crossing over on that front

Thanks for your help again, it's nice to get a second opinion quickly without a fee.

J M Fahey

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 04:59:13 PM »
Quote
I'm looking for advice on splicing the output cables from fairly matching rated amps with the same speakers [celestion 12s]
NO
If you splice *output*  cabled from one amp to another you are joining *outputs* and that blows amps as Phatt said.

Quote
I have had speaker issues with a 2x12 Stage 160 that is Not a ripped cone. when plugged in, they have a very audible hum that's harsh and responds to input frequency. I pulled the amp down on stage on accident one night.
Nice to know but irrelevant.
Quote
I now since use the amp to preamp my cybertwin
IF you mean you connect Stage *preamp* to drive Cyber Twin *power amps*  with same signal, and each CT power amp drives its own speakers, yes, that can be done.
Quote
with the same speakers. the CT is rated 130 watts, and the Stage is rated 160
Nice to know.

Read my lips: NO.
Each power amp (one in Stage, 2 in CT) drives its own speaker(s) and nothing else.

s3gle

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2018, 07:37:37 PM »
Okay so It's a few months later, I have been using the 100 watt speakers in series from the Cyber Twin and it's working great,

I am just a little paranoid after reading some advice that under-powered speakers for their rating runs a high risk of burning up the "overworked" power amp section.

For my case, this would be the 2 separate 65 watt outputs going to 2 100 watt speakers each.

By ratio of a 50 watt speaker handling 12 watts output, and being fine, I'm not really so nervous,

but from the knowledgeable responses I have received so far, is there any reason I should be concerned about using 2 100 watt speakers in series from 65w output? Or things I should look for or watch for

Only thing I can say besides it being quiet at low volume with no input, slow to feedback, and peeling paint around 3 on the master, is that sometimes with the ODs and Drive channel there is a faintly audible line level tone of about 600hz, kinda high pitched but weak that I don't remember before wiring additional speakers. The tone is steady and not related to pickup input. I attribute it to shoddy wiring in my apartment bedroom because it's not as apparent depending on whether lamps, fans, laundry etc is going on in the other rooms.

Thanks anyone who can reply, especially the one guy who could see through my feeble grasp of correct terminology

g1

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2018, 09:21:22 PM »
I wouldn't worry about the speaker power handling thing.  You are better off with speakers that can handle more power than the amp can deliver.
It would take an extremely inefficient speaker to cause you to turn up so much that you would damage the amp.  And most amps that did not have protection against that would probably sound so horribly clipped you would turn the volume down anyway.
Does the amp have reverb?  Sometimes a reverb tank will ring like that constant tone you are hearing.

s3gle

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Re: Splice output cables of matched speakers?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2018, 09:54:13 PM »
Oh yeah, using at least the amps' reverbs, at least 2 all the time. If not also a floor unit. And the echoes

Sorry it seems like I'm being dumb here, don't know what my own equipment does and etc.

I just get this creeping feeling I'm unaware of some detail that will be costly after assembling my rig since starting out as a teenager. It was hard work on its own to keep all these parts working together! For 15 years

It's like every other time I flip on my gear it sounds different. I think it's just a little over the top for what the wall can handle without a conditioner for the surge protector. I had the same questions at my old place where the mains noise was worse, I presume because there was always a lot of construction going on up and down the street. What's this hiss, what's that burp in the volume. I barely ever turn it up, but I've strained to shield, compress, and gate the signal as much as possible. To get rid of interference, worked out really good!

Thanks for your help, that 600hz tone in the signal remains intermittent if not also absent sometimes since your reply, so probably no way to solve it. I've always been wary of the Stage blowing up because there's no connection to the speakers for the power amp, but it's holding out without trouble for 5 years, so I guess there's some fallback in the design to compensate for broken or missing connections to its speakers. Turns out the CT is also fairly idiot proof, because my rewire job came loose one night, and powering up didn't hurt anything. I was so scared

Anyway. Thanks for your replies!

 

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