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Solid State Amplifiers => The Newcomer's Forum => Topic started by: saturated on January 01, 2025, 10:09:17 PM

Title: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 01, 2025, 10:09:17 PM
Made another go at this since I worked a few chapters in my text book

Wiring this old artifact ballast in series with a 1000 ohm resistor and putting variable frequency through it.  With predictable results  :tu:

IMG_20250101_205813582_HDR.jpg

IMG_20250101_205824451.jpg

So now when people see me wandering around wondering what I'm thinking about it's gonna be....."so the resistance of the inductor (ballast) goes up..... :lmao:

Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 01, 2025, 10:34:22 PM
I remembered I had a monster choke so I went and grabbed it and repeated the tests
:loco

The results were not what I expected it is such a beast I figured it would have crazy reactance a lower frequency

IMG_20250101_212442285.jpg

IMG_20250101_212452426.jpg

IMG_20250101_212833556 (1).jpg

But it let me go much higher

 xP

I have a lot to 💬 ponder  :'(



Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 01, 2025, 10:38:25 PM
Btw I used an atlas lcr45 on the ballast it measured about 755 mH

So on the label on the monster choke I guess hys means Henrys then it's 5 mH  :loco

I have very small 10 and 15 mH inductors so why is a 5 mH so big and heavy 🪨  :grr

Edit: because it can handle 22.5 amps and 1500 volts
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 05, 2025, 09:01:31 AM
So then I'm doing a bunch of problems where the output voltage ⚡ is divided by the input voltage at different frequencies and do some more calculations with logarithms etc and it gives me the frequency response (?).....in decibels...?

I thought decibels was like dude how loud 🔊📢 is stuff.  Like a 70s Who concert or 707 taking off.

Oh well back to the grind  xP
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 09, 2025, 08:47:48 PM
I'm doing lots of the same stuff over and over with resistors capacitaters and inductors  :tu:

I've been impressed with this hobby that experimental results closely match calculations.

However I'm wondering if there is a limit to how accurately my multimeter can measure ac voltage ⚡ drops (rms) at different frequencies....like 20 khz

Oh well I guess that's why we have oscilloscopes (Vp-p)

Or bench multimeters ?  xP

I'm sure it would be cool 😎 to have a bench meter but I certainly don't need voltage to twenty decimal places or a real earth ground (thanks G1  :tu: )
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: g1 on January 14, 2025, 01:31:08 PM
Your meter should have a spec for the AC volts range as far as frequency response.
My true RMS meter says 45Hz to 2Khz.  A lot of them are just for measuring AC volts in the 60 to 100Hz area.
Yes, scope is best bet for higher freqs.
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 18, 2025, 08:34:37 PM
Here is an 🥼🧪 experiment I just did

I was really impressed how the measured hung right in there with the calculated

Unfortunately at 50 khz it went out the window
IMG_20250118_192653430_HDR.jpg

Here is the "schematic"  :lmao:

IMG_20250118_193155847 (1).jpg

I know

I should have remeasured everything with my scope.   :grr
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 19, 2025, 06:23:07 AM
Ok I went and redid the experiment this time using my scope to measure the voltage drop across the resistor at different frequencies and got some good results  :tu:
(bottom left)
IMG_20250119_050720450 (1).jpg


gratuitous scope pic

IMG_20250119_050730379.jpg

 xP

So all I need now is a gif of Keanu going
"DUDE.....your meter can't handle it "

 :loco
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 27, 2025, 06:02:51 PM
Well I got into somewhat of a pickle 🥒

I have three chapters to go in my little book before I can go on to the cool second book that has me playing with transistors and diodes and stuff but I hit a 🛣� roadblock.

The third from the last chapter was on bandpass filters so I ran into trouble with the impedance calculations of inductors and capacitaters and resistors in parallel.  Meanwhile I was like "what is all this j and theta crap"  :grr

I tried to get through it but ultimately admitted defeat and went back to a chapter in a book a did a few years ago so I'm midway through that.
IMG_20250127_164742096.jpg

So all good it should be rewarding to get to the lab portion and see 🙈 how the 🥼 experimental 🧪 results compare.

There is a post by one of our esteemed members from near Australia 🦘 🌏 where he told someone what frequency to expect from a potentiometer and capacitater  xP so I may play around and see if I can figure out how he calculated that  :loco  :tu:


Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 27, 2025, 06:12:07 PM
Ok I tried it  :loco
IMG_20250127_170812597 (1).jpg
I got lucky I guess  :lmao:

Might be time to buy a lottery ticket  xP
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: Tassieviking on January 30, 2025, 10:47:14 AM
I just cheat and find a calculator on the net. :)
http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/High-pass-filter-calculator.php
http://www.learningaboutelectronics.com/Articles/Low-pass-filter-calculator.php
http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/Fkeisan.htm
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on January 30, 2025, 03:45:04 PM
I'm glad you were nice
I actually got scared when I saw you replied  <3)

 :lmao:
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: joecool85 on February 01, 2025, 04:44:08 PM
Quote from: Tassieviking on January 30, 2025, 10:47:14 AMI just cheat and find a calculator on the net. :)
...
http://sim.okawa-denshi.jp/en/Fkeisan.htm

This is the one that I use!
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on February 02, 2025, 05:43:03 AM
About forty years ago when I was still in college and working part time the university had afternoon/evening classes I guess it was geared towards working older people  xP

So anyway I was a 🦇 vampire staying up all night doing homework and playing guitar 🎸 etc and my routine had me going to bed 🛏� at about 0530.  I had found that Casper the friendly ghost 👻 came on like at 0500 and that was my SOP.

So what does all that have to do with anything?  :loco
At night in the small town it got quiet with the exception of an audible hum  :grr
Sometimes I would have the windows open I was in an upstairs room at the end of the house.  This (real or perceived) hum/pitch/monotone frequency tormented me to some end.  In fact I made a few nocturnal excursions around town looking for it.  I would drive around to different areas and shut the engine (slant six 66 Dart) off and sit and try to determine where it was coming from.
Spoiler alert: I never did find it or find out anything.
When I told my dad about it he said there was a composer that went crazy because of constantly hearing 440 or something  :trouble

xP
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: joecool85 on February 02, 2025, 10:48:14 AM
Quote from: saturated on February 02, 2025, 05:43:03 AMAbout forty years ago when I was still in college and working part time the university had afternoon/evening classes I guess it was geared towards working older people  xP

So anyway I was a 🦇 vampire staying up all night doing homework and playing guitar 🎸 etc and my routine had me going to bed 🛏� at about 0530.  I had found that Casper the friendly ghost 👻 came on like at 0500 and that was my SOP.

So what does all that have to do with anything?  :loco
At night in the small town it got quiet with the exception of an audible hum  :grr
Sometimes I would have the windows open I was in an upstairs room at the end of the house.  This (real or perceived) hum/pitch/monotone frequency tormented me to some end.  In fact I made a few nocturnal excursions around town looking for it.  I would drive around to different areas and shut the engine (slant six 66 Dart) off and sit and try to determine where it was coming from.
Spoiler alert: I never did find it or find out anything.
When I told my dad about it he said there was a composer that went crazy because of constantly hearing 440 or something  :trouble

xP

Was there a hydro-electric power plant nearby at all?  Or did the college have a steam plant?  They create hum like you are describing.  UMaine Orono has a steam plant, and a lot of northern colleges do.  Not sure about out your way.
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: saturated on February 02, 2025, 11:22:51 AM
Hi Mr Joe afaik pretty sure nothing like that existed...however that is an excellent point in that there is or was a plethora of natural gas, propane, pipelines, petroleum in the area. 
I got lucky for some reason I never had to explain to law enforcement why I was sitting in an old heap behind a business by myself at 0200  :tu:

Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: g1 on February 04, 2025, 06:12:50 PM
Quote from: saturated on February 02, 2025, 05:43:03 AMAt night in the small town it got quiet with the exception of an audible hum  :grr
Sometimes I would have the windows open I was in an upstairs room at the end of the house.  This (real or perceived) hum/pitch/monotone frequency tormented me to some end.  In fact I made a few nocturnal excursions around town looking for it.  I would drive around to different areas and shut the engine (slant six 66 Dart) off and sit and try to determine where it was coming from.
Spoiler alert: I never did find it or find out anything.
Tinnitus is not always a ringing and can be a hum.  I have it at 104 Hz.
Most of the time I don't notice, but sometimes it gets bad.

Sometimes the hum can be external though.  For a long time there were people driving around in Windsor, searching for the hum, like you.   :)

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2020/07/28/windsor-residents-rejoice-after-mysterious-hum-goes-silent-after-decade/5529975002/
Title: Re: Filtering frequency revisited
Post by: J M Fahey on February 05, 2025, 12:06:33 PM
Interesting data, thanks.

I see a blast furnace as a tube, one end open, one end closed, with high pressure air injected at the closed end: an organ pipe (or a flute)

(https://www.shutterstock.com/shutterstock/photos/225251545/display_1500/stock-vector-illustration-of-the-blast-furnace-for-the-smelting-of-iron-ore-225251545.jpg)

(https://cdn.comsol.com/wordpress/2013/07/organ-pipe-sketch.png)

the analogy is evident.

It will definitely produce sound, at an easy to calculate frequency.

A 20 meter )(60 something feet) long pipe will produce very high power 4.29Hz, go figure.

Chest pounding indeed.

I was *smashed* by the power involved: an Austrian blast furnace used 8.4 MEGA watt blowers, an old 1919 US one used eight 2000kW steam powered ones.

At the same time, the very low frequency/long wavelength (40 meters) makes it very hard for human ears , separated by mere 30 cm/1 ft or so, to pinpoint source.