Solid State Guitar Amp Forum | DIY Guitar Amplifiers

Solid State Amplifiers => Amplifier Discussion => Topic started by: E on February 25, 2010, 02:51:03 PM

Title: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on February 25, 2010, 02:51:03 PM
Well after i've built a battery amp odds are i'll be looking for a 'budget' practice amp. I'd say between 10 and 30W, but quality is more important than volume. Essentially can you spec me everything please? Speaker, Power Amp, Preamp... whatever. I've had a look around but without much success...

It's worth noting though that i'm in the UK, cheers in advance :)
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: dan stanton on February 27, 2010, 10:21:24 AM
I don't know how to post links. Look up epemag.com. They've got a good practice amp there.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on February 27, 2010, 10:39:15 AM
http://www.ssguitar.com/index.php?topic=1524.msg9719
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on March 01, 2010, 12:18:26 PM
Hmm, thanks. Just because you said that was better suited to bass i thought there might be a better option. But looks good, you think a Celestion Super 8 (http://professional.celestion.com/guitar/products/originals/detail.asp?ID=11) would be a good match? I could use my woodwork skills to make a cabinet. Would this transformer work, assuming it's a good idea to go for the 2050 over the 2030?

http://www.djsoundkit.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=P037A

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: dan stanton on March 01, 2010, 04:41:58 PM
The Celestion would be good. If you can get 12+12 out of that transformer, should give you 15V. Also look at the tl082 datasheet. There's a good tone control you could replace the tl081.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on March 01, 2010, 07:39:17 PM
*This* one: http://www.djsoundkit.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=P034A , 12+12V, 45VA will give you nominal +/-16V rils, +/-15V in practice, good for an around 15W/8ohms power amp
That 8" Celestion is fine and the +/-15V rails, with a little extra filtering, will power any preamp you build.
You can later build another TDA2050 on that chassis, and hook it to an external speaker jack, to borrow any 8 ohm speaker you find where you play, or you can later build an extension cabinet.
You will be loud.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 02, 2010, 08:29:41 AM
That's great, thanks. Since i've got two weeks off i'll probably have a go at it... if anybody's interested i made a copy of the PDF without the giant 'www.epmag.com' in the middle of every page so you can actually see the diagrams.

http://www.mediafire.com/?mmmvn4rft2k
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: tonyharker on April 02, 2010, 01:37:01 PM
Quote from: E on April 02, 2010, 08:29:41 AM
i made a copy of the PDF without the giant 'www.epmag.com' in the middle of every page so you can actually see the diagrams.

So How did you do that then? Huh!!

Tony.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 02, 2010, 01:50:05 PM
Quote from: tonyharker on April 02, 2010, 01:37:01 PM
Quote from: E on April 02, 2010, 08:29:41 AM
i made a copy of the PDF without the giant 'www.epmag.com' in the middle of every page so you can actually see the diagrams.

So How did you do that then? Huh!!

Tony.

Open original PDF
Print to file - PDF (gets rid of the permissions)
Open with PDF Editor (Linux)
Select watermark
Press delete
Repeat for every page
Save
Host

;)

Oh, and will using a 12v transformer instead of a 9v one work?
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on April 02, 2010, 05:55:38 PM
Yes, it gives you more power ; with 12VAC windings you'll end with +/-15V rails, as datasheet says.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 03, 2010, 11:34:41 AM
Okay, so replace the TDA2030 with a TDA2050 and the TL081 with a TL082. Anything else i should know?

I've got a heatsink here, pulled it from an old PSU. Was cooling a few similar looking chips, but i think it would be okay for the 2050? Roughly 3cmx3cm on one side, 5cmx3cm on another and 4cmx3cm on the oposite one. Not counting the fins. Nearly 2mm thick and aluminium as far as i can tell.

(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5701/heatsink.png)

Sorry for the quality, phone camera doesn't do macro very well.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on April 03, 2010, 04:33:06 PM
Tha heatsink will do.
You can't replace TL081 with TL082 but with TL071.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 03, 2010, 04:46:24 PM
Quote from: J M Fahey on April 03, 2010, 04:33:06 PM
Tha heatsink will do.
You can't replace TL081 with TL082 but with TL071.

Yeah, i wondered because one sais 'dual' and the other 'mono' in their descriptions. Kinda being newbie here and assuming that a higher number is better but which of the two (81/71) would be better? Thanks :)

Oh, and i'm having a bit of trouble finding a 470k Carbon Preset Potentiometer, could i replace it with say a 500k one? Sorry to be such a pain...
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: phatt on April 07, 2010, 12:52:10 AM
A 500k pot can be anywhere from 300k to 550k.
This is called, tolerance window.  most stuff like this is general/ kinda/ about. :)

Same with caps where you see a value 50nF but the closest you will find on the shelf is 47nF.
don't worry you will catch onto all these little quirks soon enough.
Phil.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 09, 2010, 10:52:53 AM
Okay, thanks for your help - you learn by making mistakes so i'm just going to go for it. Little update - PCB arrived today, i love how the dog only seems to destroy the non important mail.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/820/pcb.png)

Again, sorry for the image quality. I would have used a better camera but i'm having problems with ISO and the flash casting shadows of the lens. Anyway, looks good. Home etched as far as i can tell, as you would expect. Not the most pleasing of colours but that doesn't really matter. It's smaller than i thought it would be, which will help with the plan i've got to make a small, portable enclosure.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 12, 2010, 09:57:31 AM
Okay, i've managed to source pretty much everything apart from two, being the BZY88 4v7 Zener Diode and a 2A 100V in-line bridge rectifier. For the latter i can find either a 2A 200V one or a 3A 100V, which would be better? As for the Zener Diode... does it even exist? I can't find it anywhere, is there something that would work in its place?

Comes to about £80 now for all the innards and speaker, not including enclosure or PCB. That is with a new soldering iron but does that not strike you as a bit much? I mean, i could get a Peavey Vypyr 15 for £85 which would probably be cheaper than the total project cost.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on April 12, 2010, 11:32:00 AM
the BZY88 4v7 Zener Diode is just any 4V7 (4.7V) 1/2W or 500 mW Zener Diode.
The rectifier diode is an 1N5402 or better (meaning higher voltage) 3A 200PIV "200V" or better (1N5404, etc.)
You *may* use an 1N4002 there (many do) but it will be marginal at best.
Now the million dollar question: HOW did you manage to spend 80 British Pounds on it? Only for the "innards" ? How much's that in US$/dollars?
Please post a detailed item list, with prices.
It will be very useful/educational for us.
Good luck.

Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 12, 2010, 11:50:53 AM
I haven't pressed 'buy' yet, i smell something amiss somewhere... £80 is about $125 by today's exchange rate, but that's including tax. I found a 1N5408, will that be aright? I was talking about the in-line bridge rectifier though, not the diode but thanks for the catch.

Sorry about the large images, just me being lazy.

www.rapidonline.com:
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/th_Screenshot-1-1.png) (http://s834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/?action=view&current=Screenshot-1-1.png)
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/th_Screenshot-11.png) (http://s834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/?action=view&current=Screenshot-11.png)

www.maplin.co.uk:
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/th_Screenshot-2-1.png) (http://s834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/?action=view&current=Screenshot-2-1.png)

cpc.farnell.com:
(http://i834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/th_Screenshot-3-1.png) (http://s834.photobucket.com/albums/zz270/Superewza/?action=view&current=Screenshot-3-1.png)
EDIT: Replaced with thumbnails, probably a good idea.
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 16, 2010, 10:37:11 AM
Okay, well evaluating the whole cost of it i think i'm going to have to put this project on the backburner for a bit and do what i probably should have done to begin with an make a Noisy Cricket.

I've got two old computer speaker drivers here, 4 Ohm 3W with a 70mm diameter. I assume they'd be up for the job? Would they be in series or parallel? Is it a choice between a speaker or the output jack? I could make two i guess, one with speakers and one to feed into a cab... one thing that's been bugging me about this is that in a 'sealed' enclosure, what is the earth? Is it just a bit of aluminium or something? Is there a way of working out how big it has to be? And the Radioshack wiring diagram doesn't show anything connecting to the earth, but the circuit diagram clearly shows 11 different ones. Thanks.

Again, sorry for the large number of newbie questions. Don't know who else to ask...
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on April 16, 2010, 12:42:56 PM
Hi E.
I hadn't answered yet because I was trying to assemble a cost list, which here in Argentina *should* be higher than in USA or UK, yet often it's the opposite.
I'm not taking Australia as a reference because I know prices there fly high.
I still want to do it as I find that comparison interesting.
Please post here a simple text  list with all components, including the PCB .
Don't be *too* detailed, just group all same price components together, such as 1/4 W resistors, small ceramics, etc.
I'll add what I can get parts for.
Maybe somebody else does the same in a different country, it will be interesting to compare.
It's good that you start with an intermediate project first.
The earth is connected to the metal chassis, unless it's a very basic plastic case project, *and* either to the negative of the single power supply or center tap of a dual/split one.
On the schematics often you find "many" grounds, but they are all the same, joined by a PCB track, a piece of wire, or sometimes simply by the metal chassis itself, although that last uncontrolled connection system can give you some nasty surprises, such as oscillations, motorboating, etc.
If your computer speakers are 8 ohm each, you can use them in parallel; if 4 ohms, only in series, unless you build a TDA2003/LM383 which is happy with 2 ohms.
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Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 17, 2010, 11:18:42 AM
I was going to go for a wooden case.These are all at Rapid (http://www.rapidonline.com) where possible. Price is 'each' and i've listed below where there is more than one.




I make that to be £35.32. Which is fair enough, £10 more than in 2002. Add onto that VAT (keep forgetting to show it on that site) and it's roughly £42. Delivery at two separate places is £4.95 and £2.99 making the total £50. Then i'll need a new soldering iron and solder, so that's £15 (for a 30W Antex) bringing it to £65. The Celestion Super 8 is £13.23 with £6 delivery so lets say £20 bringing the total to £85. The enclosure will probably cost at least another £20, which is a bit much for me really at the minute. £85 is the price of a Peavy VYPR 15w, which will be a hell of a lot better than this however you look at it. Hence i'm still thinking about just making a Noisy Cricket (which i make to be about £35 total including soldering iron) or something for the time being, i'd come back to it since i've got the PCB already and i would have the tools already. Not only that but i've been playing without an amp and i've kinda got used to it.

Incidentally, i found this:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=66623.0
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: J M Fahey on April 17, 2010, 11:19:07 PM
Very interesting post.
Now I'm falling asleep, besides being Saturday night, but I'll check some prices on Monday.
Anyway on first sight most look reasonable.
Your Celestion speaker costs about 8 or 10 times what Peavey puts in their VYPYR, thta's for sure, and it's *much* better, it's the real thing.
You should not consider the price of tools , multimeter, etc. into your costs, or if you want to be very conservative, charge, say , 5% of the cost, no more.
The same goes for your 1/2 pound roll of solder, your 100 yard wire spool, and so on.
Thanks.
:) ;) ;D >:( :( :o 8) 8) ::)
No, nothing, just checking emoticons, I missed them  ;)
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 18, 2010, 08:12:38 AM
By that measure i shouldn't really factor in delivery either so 40+15 brings it to £55. Which is okay, i guess. It's just that it's all very well not factoring in these costs for the sake of comparison but i've still got to pay them. The soldering iron would probably pay for itself mind you, the amount of things i've broken and said 'i need to buy a soldering iron' for... i digress, if i can salvage a bit more wood then i shouldn't have to spend so much on the enclosure, say £60 in total? I dunno, i'm at two ends about it now.

Doing a quick list compilation (as you do) it looks like making that Tube Cricket would be more expensive than continuing with this. And there are a lot of things i don't understand about Valves just yet... or indeed betray the forum  8|
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: E on April 23, 2010, 12:56:06 PM
I still don't know... part of me wants to say:

and another part of me wants to say:

I just don't know which one is right...
Title: Re: Practice Amp?
Post by: joecool85 on April 23, 2010, 07:00:14 PM
I would start with the noisy cricket myself.  Its always fun and rewarding starting small then building larger stuff later.  Plus, I've found I don't need a large amp, most of the times 20 watts is my max requirement.