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Vox speaker out on a AC15C2 using speaker cable, to a Fender Frontman 212R Combo

Started by ctguy1955, April 05, 2013, 07:52:53 PM

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ctguy1955

 http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21234847&postcount=2

I just ordered a used Frontman 212R from guitar center and it will be here in a few days. As its used, I dont mind drilling some holes in it and
installing some new jacks to help with what I would like to accomplish.

The manual I downloaded about the Fender 212R is very sketchy to me, in that M makes it sound like you can hook up another head amp to the 212r and just use the speakers and not the 212 head. 

The above photos show a stereo jack with leaves that can lift up when a jack is inserted. If I were to intall one of these in the 212, and hook up the 212 amp and then the speakers to the proper poles......you can use the 212 like a normal combo amp........but if I hook up other wires to the speakers only and you put in a speaker wire male jack
( not guitar wire cable, I learned that much ) then I could run the two speakers from the 212 back to the extension out jack on my Vox AC15C2, and use the 212 just as an extension cab ?????

Any help with what parts or wires to buy would be helpful, and I appreciate the help very much.

Thank You all very much !!!

g1

  Yes, you can do that with a switching jack like in the article you linked to.  However, don't do it that way as they are creating an amp output jack but you want to create a speaker input jack.  It is also very important that you label your jack as "speaker input".
  You will find a white and black wire coming out of the amp chassis going to the speakers.  You will need to cut those wires so you can wire the jack in series between the chassis and the speakers.
So after you cut them, you will have a white and a black going to the amp chassis, and a white and black going into the speaker cab.
  Here is a drawing with the type of jack you referenced.  I have labelled the pins with their proper names and shown where they should connect to.  Hope it will make sense to you.

ctguy1955

Thank You so much for your help, and Im so glad I can do this  !!!!!!!  YEA !!!!!!   Im the only one going to be using it, so I will put the jack in the back of the amp so no one else
can even see it.

I appreciate your help very much !!!

ctguy1955

Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 06, 2013, 11:56:14 PM
Thank You so much for your help, and Im so glad I can do this  !!!!!!!  YEA !!!!!!   Im the only one going to be using it, so I will put the jack in the back of the amp so no one else
can even see it.

I appreciate your help very much !!!


http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Jacks/9-lug_Stereo_Jack.html  Im wondering if I should buy the
stewmac 9 pin, as I dont see how your diagram is going to get the speakers to work with a Mono male jack inserted into it.  I can see
where the leaves will rise and disconnect the amp from the speakers, but not how the speakers are still connected still.

Im such a newb, and Im very sorry if I just dont understand all of this, but the photos of the jack dont tell me very much about what happens
to both sides when a male jack is inserted. From the photo I guess that only one side gets lifted up and the photo here makes it look
like ONLY the 2 and 3 leave have lifted and not the number 1.     If all on right side stay connected and all three on right are disconnected, then
how does a single mono jack do it?    The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power ???/

I cant say Im sorry enough, but I just want to make sure I dont screw it up.   If you say your diagram is all I need, then I believe you, I just
dont know how the jack works.    Thanks Bro  !!!!

ctguy1955

  Its late and Im tired, Sorry about spelling errors and I think Im over thinking this.   I should just delete that last entry as it makes me look like the jerk that I feel I am.

The male jack with the tip and ring carry the + and the - signal from the vox and when the male jack is inserted, the amp is disconnected, but the current from the
vox now flows into the two speakers and it does everything I asked of you.

I appreciate your help and I will go to bed now and dream of going to electronics school for years so Im not a dummy.

Thank You !!!!!!!!!!!!   


http://s968.photobucket.com/user/CTguy1955/media/MikesGuitars003.jpg.html?sort=3&o=76


I had help in doing the diagram and hooking up of my 2006 strat with all new inside parts.  Im attaching the diagram.

g1

  Don't feel bad, we all start from the same place, the beginning!  Sounds like you've got it now.
  The tip connection does not lift as high as the others because of the "notch" of the male plug tip.  However, it still lifts enough to break the connection between tip and tip switch.
  So the way you have drawn the jack connecting to the amp is correct.
You said "The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power", but it is the black that is ground, which is why it connects to the sleeve.  Tip normally carries the hot signal, sleeve is ground.
  The two contacts that you are not using here are called "ring" and "ring switch".  They are usually only used when the jack will be used with TRS (or stereo) plugs.

ctguy1955

Quote from: g1 on April 07, 2013, 10:53:24 AM
  Don't feel bad, we all start from the same place, the beginning!  Sounds like you've got it now.
  The tip connection does not lift as high as the others because of the "notch" of the male plug tip.  However, it still lifts enough to break the connection between tip and tip switch.
  So the way you have drawn the jack connecting to the amp is correct.
You said "The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power", but it is the black that is ground, which is why it connects to the sleeve.  Tip normally carries the hot signal, sleeve is ground.
  The two contacts that you are not using here are called "ring" and "ring switch".  They are usually only used when the jack will be used with TRS (or stereo) plugs.

  Thank You so much........   Now that Ive slept well, I still feel like a bit of a jerk, but Ill get over it as soon as I have my Vox hooked up to my 212R this coming Wednesday or Thursday. I called the Portsmouth New Hampshire store and had them put a 10 ft 12GA speaker wire with two 1/4" jacks on each end, so that I can do what I want. Had I not
bothered to look into this a little, I would have used a guitar cord and messed things up.   We learn by doing, but somethings doing is bad.

Thanks to you, the doing will be fine in this case and I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a
100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

I so appreciate your help very much. So many others said it couldnt be done at all and I felt it could. You proved them WRONG and I appreciate it very much !!!!!

I will upload a small youtube video of the system when I get it up and running to show you how I made out with this !!!!!!!!!!!

Roly

Quote from: ctguy1955I still feel like a bit of a jerk

Like you were born knowing about the wide range of 1/4-inch jack hardware?  I've been doing this stuff for 50-odd years and I still check jacks (sockets) with a plug and ohmmeter to be sure I've got it right.

I knew a young fella who managed to connect 240VAC mains to the 5 volt power input of a brand new Single Board Computer simply because he was too arrogant to ask me.  FLASH!  BANG!  About $1000 worth of damage in a few milliseconds because he really was a jerk.  You're not even in the same country much less the same ballpark - don't be so hard on yourself; if you continue doing electronics stuff you will always be making mistakes, and if you can't handle that then you had better take up flower arranging or basket we... no, wait.

None of us were born knowing, and they insist on inventing new stuff all the time - I'm a tech and I can't operate an i-Anything, etc, etc.   :duh

Quote from: ctguy1955100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

And we'll help you fix that too.   ;)

If you say theory and practice don't agree you haven't applied enough theory.

g1

Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

  Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available.  That would be another scenario.

ctguy1955

Quote from: g1 on April 08, 2013, 12:09:49 PM
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

  Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available.  That would be another scenario.


  yes, but the subject tells you I want to use my ac15c2 extension out as the amp (head) that will drive just the speakers of the Fender FM 212R speakers.

I did receive it via UPS truck today and I am VERY happy with the sound of it just the way it is now. The clean sounds are magnificent for a solid state amp.
If you dont touch the strings on your guitar, all you hear is perfect quiet and nothing else.

When the jack comes in the mail, I will do the modification and the 10 foot 12 gauge speaker cable is on the way too.


g1

Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 09, 2013, 08:57:21 PM
Quote from: g1 on April 08, 2013, 12:09:49 PM
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

  Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available.  That would be another scenario.


  yes, but the subject tells you I want to use my ac15c2 extension out as the amp (head) that will drive just the speakers of the Fender FM 212R speakers.
Sorry about the confusion here, I am talking about the Fender amp.  You said you now have a 100W head.  All I'm saying is it will not be able to be used as a "head" to drive some other speaker cab.  That would require a different wiring scheme.
  With the extra jack wired the way I have shown, the Fender can be used as a combo amp with it's own speakers, or as a speaker cabinet.  It will not be able to be used as a separate amp "head".
  You did not indicate you were interested in that, so I did not consider it.

ctguy1955

Yes, Thank You.   I realize that it cant be used in that manner.

I cant believe how much I like the sound of the Fender Amp !!!   For a solid state, Im just so happy !!!   

I was just reading about the upcoming new Mustang IV V2 combo with twin speakers ( wont fit in my entertainment cabinet ) and how
they may have upgraded the power supply and that fixed the FIZZ.  I had one, but traded it in towards the Vox because of the FIZZ.

The 212R is so quiet when your on clean channel really loud and you put your guitar on the stand........Silence  is Golden !!!

I have not tried it out with any pedals, but I love the clean sound so much.   

I received the cliff jack in the mail today and now its all clear as to how the right side all stays put and that all three leaves lift up
in the air and disconnect things.  I wont be installing it for awhile as I dont have the speaker wire yet, and Im in no rush.

With the other statement I made about the head, was that most all of the 2 x 12 cabs were all 200 and over, and I paid 200 for this
combo amp, so its like I paid for the 2 x 12 cab, and got the head for free ( meaning the power amp was practically free compared to just a cab ).

Thank you all and I look forward to getting back to you with how it worked out.

I look forward to reading about the new V2 models when they come out soon.

J M Fahey

Maybe you are forgetting a small detail:
afaik the Vox has 16 ohms only output, or maybe 8/16 , but that pair of Frontman speakers is wired for 4 ohms.
If so, you are not there yet.
Check your Vox user manual.

g1

Quote from: J M Fahey on April 11, 2013, 02:40:51 AM
afaik the Vox has 16 ohms only output, or maybe 8/16 , but that pair of Frontman speakers is wired for 4 ohms.
Oops! Thanks JM, I had forgot to consider impedances.
The Fender speakers wiring will have to be changed from parallel to series (simple).  Then it will be an 8 ohm cabinet.
  The Vox has an 8/16 switch on the back which will have to be set to 8.  The Fender cab will have to be plugged into the EXTERNAL spkr. jack, not the extension jack.  This will mean the Vox's own speaker can not be used at the same time.
  When used by itself, the Fender amp will give a tiny bit less power into the 8 ohm cab than the 4 ohm stock  cab wiring.
ctguy1955, I hope this is still a workable scenario for you.

J M Fahey

Mmmmh, those Frontman speakers in series will give you either 4 or 16 ohms total, never 8.