Amp Website Missing..???

[PoorOtis]

Dean Markley Vintage Amplifier Website...Where did it go??
There is little to no really useful information..IE..Design/Theory/Modifications..
Information is Very Scarce on both Tube and Solid State models up to 1996.
From 1996-2010 no new models were produced..they started up again in 2011 with Ultrasound Amps.

I'm almost positive I saw the Vintage Website some time back..but now..NOTHING..!

Where does someone go for info on their vintage amps?

[DrGonz78]

The only web page that I know of is here...

http://www.deanmarkley.com/Info/LegacyAmps/Docs.shtml

I found this a couple of months ago looking for information a Dean Markley 30 watt amp. Never did find what I was looking for on the site. However, there seems to be some good info still.

[Roly]

(since you specifically ask) I know more than I want to go into, but the short story is that it was shut down by DM for copyright infringment.  He was asked nicely several times to acknowledge his sources and didn't respond, so eventually his ISP was given a "take down" order by DM's legal department.

What remains is here;

https://sites.google.com/site/deanmarkleyvintageamps/home

...and appears to be abandoned, no updates since this was put up.  It's sad actually because had he been even slightly co-operative and hadn't adopted a FU attitude it could have turned out very differently.  {as it happened he worked only a few suburbs away from where I was living at the time}.

There is more to it, but that's the essence.

You can also try the Wayback Machine.

[PoorOtis]

Thanks to..Dr Gonz78 for the link on Manuals & Schematics..I have them..

Thanks to..Roly for the information that you have and for the Wayback Machine link.

I do not understand why DM would not want to share info on their products with the people who use them?
I called DM..and got nothing..had to leave several messages..never received any return calls..did receive a
email from them saying..they only keep records for 10 years, and gave me their link to their manuals.

Thank You Both for Your Time...
Guess I'm stuck with the info that I have on my old dmc-80
My Respects.

[Roly]

I do not understand why DM would not want to share info on their products with the people who use them?

Speaking generally, as a tech I think that the anally retentive attitude of some companies is self defeating and not entirely rational.  While Fender, just for example, don't directly provide historic circuits on their website for their older amps they have long given de facto copyright release to sites like The Fender Field Guide and Schematic Heaven* to provide these.

On the one hand I can see bean counters, with some justification, objecting to the cost of hosting/serving historic files with no direct income, and with much less justification that providing old amp repair information hurts new sales.

In my opinion the latter argument is seriously wrong.  Goodwill and trust are important parts of customer loyalty, and there is nothing so corrosive of that goodwill and trust as refusing to supply repair information, and insisting on equipment being returned to an authorised agent for repair.  For current production models there is some justification in obtaining repair reports to feed back into production modifications, and somewhat less in terms of protecting their reputation against shonky repairs, but for equipment that has long been out of production it smacks of a restraint of trade, consumerist waste, and sheer bloody mindedness.  It also invites the question of how you are going to be treated if your new amp develops a fault.

{I have had reports that local service agents are refusing to touch the Frontman series if it is out of warranty, and lately assisted with a repair of an obscure fault that ran to an exchange of over 100 e-mails with an experienced tech.  I have also noted several being offered here second hand for throw away prices.}

Providing historic circuits (or being willing to allow others to provide them) leaves an impression of a company that will stand by even its oldest products, and actually gives a damn about the situation of the working musician who often needs a rapid solution.

My own experience of being open and helpful with people who want to attempt their own repairs is that many of these have ended up on my service bench as paying jobs when they turn out to be too difficult for the unskilled/inexperienced, and primarily because I was willing to help somebody have a go themselves.  I also found this true of my industrial clients as well, being helpful has often turned into money in the bank and ongoing work because it speaks of honesty and goodwill towards clients, it builds your reputation.

I have sometimes encountered amp builders who guard their circuits as trade secrets on the grounds that somebody might copy them and do them out of sales.  Again I think this is misguided.  A circuit is only a start, and there are many other factors of technique that are not on the diagramme that are hard won through experience, and that are a serious impediment to an intending commercial copyist.    I also have to observe that I have often found in these cases that what is being hidden is that the circuit is nothing special at all.

I could say a lot more on this topic because it grinds my gears, but I'll just say that every time I encounter this anally retentive attitude I go out of my way to defeat it, say by making and posting a trace of the circuit while I have the equipment to hand, and I'm glad to say that there are a lot more hackers out there with the same attitude, "jail breaking" and documenting sealed up systems, people who won't be stopped by what is seen as a bloody-minded corporate attitude - and more strength to them.


Specifically WRT the DM site; there were several pathways that might have avoided the "take down" outcome.  The primary problem seemed to be that the site operator had widely plagiarised material that had nothing whatsoever to do with DM amps, and had he simply acknowledged his sources instead of presenting what was almost entirely other peoples work as his own, or simply removed anything not directly to do with DM amps, there would not have been an angry mob kicking up a stink with DM US.

I have been held personally responsible in this matter for an outcome I tried very hard to avoid, but there were at least dozens of people to my knowledge who were outraged and complained directly to DM US, who then apparently moved on what they saw as a threat to their good name.  The site operator has nobody to blame but himself and his own obdurate attitude that copyright didn't apply to him, and that the misappropriation (and corruption by introducing errors) was something that nobody could do anything about, for his site being shut down and all his hard work coming to nothing.

Had he given credit where credit was due, or simply confined himself to documenting DM amps, his site would still be up.  I've put thousands of hours into Australian Valve Amps as a service to the community, but I'll be damned if I'll have some Johnny-come-lately simply rip off my work and pass it off as his own (while stuffing it up).  He could have given me credit for the wholesale slabs of my writing he lifted, or removed it from his site, but when he failed to respond and do either, a major road accident was inevitable.  Howsoever matters were taken out of my hands by DM US before I could take action - while I was still trying to negotiate, an enraged mob burned his site to the ground.

I was caught in the middle of a punch-up I tried hard to avoid, to find a mutually satisfactory outcome, but ultimately events passed me by, and the many complaints directly to DM (who had no connection with the site) had their effect.


* Schematic Heaven closing (again) is a serious blow and I hope that somebody with more resources than myself can acquire the data and keep it going.

I've just checked The Wayback Machine and it seems that many of the circuit .PDF's have been archived, but not all.

http://web.archive.org/web/20131020232057/http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heaven/www.schematicheaven.com/index_HTML.html

The original incarnation of Schematic Heaven apparently had a robots.txt that prevented the crawler from archiving any of the circuits.

[DrGonz78]

Great post Roly!  :tu:

There is a website that just popped up recently that I came across...

http://bmamps.com/Tech_sch.html

I did not realize at first, till I read someone's post on the MEF site, that this new site is very much a mirrored site to most of what was posted on Schematic Heaven. Comparing the sites I do see very similar schematics, best regards.

[Roly]

Thanks Doc, very helpful.  :dbtu:   I just e-mailed them my thanks and attached three Yamaha service manuals they don't have.

[PoorOtis]

Great Information Roly..Players need to know these things!

Good Site..Doc!! Knowledge is Power!

Much Thanks..