Fender 212r Upgrades for Tone

[NewGuy101]

Hey Everyone,

           I have been playing with a avri 52 tele through my fender frontman 212r 100watt 2x12 amplifier. This amp is now having terrible tone and the speakers sound terrible at loud sounds. The Distortion is only good for death metal. Does anyone know what speakers would fit and work well with this amp (I play classic rock, rock, BLUES, funk, and I would like some great clean sounds)? Also, does the amp have anything else that could help the tone? Thanks!

                                             JL

[J M Fahey]

You could attack the problem on 2 fronts.
1) since this is a mids-starved/scooped amp, you can upgrade to middy (and very loud) Celestion Vintage 30's.
2) You can build a good preamp, and send it via the effects loop return or power amp in, driving it directly, not passing through the Frontman preamp.
3) What do you intend to play? Obviously not thrash metal!!!!

[NewGuy101]

I intend to play mostly blues, rock, classic rock. I still want to have some great cleans for playing funk and melodic styles (Even Some Country ). I have all sorts of genres I want to play. So would the preamp do anything because my pedals I have (Sd 1, ds 1, rp155, and crybaby wah {Not in that order}). Would it help? I also checked into the speakers, and I dont think I like the vintage 30s as much but I sent Weber an email. Are there any speakers that would fit my Specs needed to fit my amp to work? I am new to the whole matching a speaker to an amp

[joecool85]

I intend to play mostly blues, rock, classic rock. I still want to have some great cleans for playing funk and melodic styles (Even Some Country ). I have all sorts of genres I want to play. So would the preamp do anything because my pedals I have (Sd 1, ds 1, rp155, and crybaby wah {Not in that order}). Would it help? I also checked into the speakers, and I dont think I like the vintage 30s as much but I sent Weber an email. Are there any speakers that would fit my Specs needed to fit my amp to work? I am new to the whole matching a speaker to an amp

As long as you get the same ohm rating as the stock speakers and get something with at least 50w per speaker you will be all set.  I'd say that your stock preamp is probably fine for you.  If you really feel after new speakers you can't get the sound you want, remember that building a new preamp isn't a crazy idea if you are an electronics junky and love soldering and playing with circuits - to a novice it could be quite daunting.

[J M Fahey]

Rod Elliot's Project 27 preamplifier is simple and quite Fendery; as in old Fenders, not Frontman and the like.
Good cleans, little distortion on its own, just enough for Blues, you increase it at will with your pedals.
*Definitely* not buzzy , compared to your actual preamp.
Rod sells the boards for a fair low price, and includes instructions, so you are covered.
You will need some cabinet to mount it or make it like a pedal and have it at your feet, in your pedalboard.
As of speakers, you may also consider Eminence Legends, excellent sound for a fair price.
The 1218 will be the warmest one.
Good luck.

[joecool85]

Rod Elliot's Project 27 preamplifier is simple and quite Fendery; as in old Fenders, not Frontman and the like.
Good cleans, little distortion on its own, just enough for Blues, you increase it at will with your pedals.
*Definitely* not buzzy , compared to your actual preamp.
Rod sells the boards for a fair low price, and includes instructions, so you are covered.
You will need some cabinet to mount it or make it like a pedal and have it at your feet, in your pedalboard.
As of speakers, you may also consider Eminence Legends, excellent sound for a fair price.
The 1218 will be the warmest one.
Good luck.

Do you really think it would make a big difference as opposed to using the stock frontman preamp though?  Some difference, sure, but a big enough one that most people would even notice?

[bry melvin]

As Far as I have been able to tell....Fenders "special design" 12 inch speakers  (as in Hot rod deluxe etc) ARE emminence basic line AKA Legend.   Fender just rates them at lower wattage...Not sure but the Stock speakers night not be that different than a Legend.

[J M Fahey]

Yes, it's something like that.
In fact, Eminence makes the "house brand" for most amp makers, who just glue their labels.
They have thousands of OEM speaker models.
A few of them are sold direct to the public under the "Legend" brand, but there are *many* which do not.
For example, their very popular "best of the cheapest" 12", with a 38mm Voice Coil, 112mm by 10mm ceramic magnet, is used in tons of Fenders, Crates, Peaveys, etc. , and is *not* part of the Legend line.
Incredibly good for the price, but not on the same level of the Legends.
The Frontman might have these, if US/Mexican made, but if Chinese made (as the FM series) it will probably have a Chinese one.

[joecool85]

Yes, it's something like that.
In fact, Eminence makes the "house brand" for most amp makers, who just glue their labels.
They have thousands of OEM speaker models.
A few of them are sold direct to the public under the "Legend" brand, but there are *many* which do not.
For example, their very popular "best of the cheapest" 12", with a 38mm Voice Coil, 112mm by 10mm ceramic magnet, is used in tons of Fenders, Crates, Peaveys, etc. , and is *not* part of the Legend line.
Incredibly good for the price, but not on the same level of the Legends.
The Frontman might have these, if US/Mexican made, but if Chinese made (as the FM series) it will probably have a Chinese one.

Learning something new everyday around here.

[bry melvin]

The Frontman might have these, if US/Mexican made, but if Chinese made (as the FM series) it will probably have a Chinese one.

OK I've mainly worked on more of the Tube amps...and Ilive near Nogales which is half in Mexico half US. It would probably be wise to check for manufacturer #s before ordering speakers though! I have run accross a quite a few "Hot Rod" and "VM" deluxes with fender special design labels that are identical to legend 12s. Could be a local thing?? The FMs I've come accross have all had speakers changed too though! Here...usually for Jensens.  course this is a predominately "country" area.

[J M Fahey]

The mid-class Fenders will have mid-line Eminences, the ones in the same range as the Legends.
Some Custom Shop models for big name artists will have whatever's needed to please them, after all the investment comes back 1000 times in increased sales and brand reinforcement.
They may use expensive Eminences (think Redcoats, Patriots, etc.), Webers, Celestions, whatever.
Eric Clapton uses (among other things) custom made "Low Power Twins" with Tone Tubby Hemp Cone speakers.
The cheap Eminences I mentioned are used in SS Princetons, Special112, Performers, etc.
Mind you, they *do* work !!! Of course they can be upgraded, that's why your friends replace them with Jensens.
Eminences can be easily recognized by their trademark stamped frame, with reinforcing ribs in the arms' centerlines, they are always painted black, by the electrophoretic process, (they also stamp truck parts), the magnets and polepieces are also painted black, the magnet cover disk has a small hole, needed to hang it in the water based paint tank, they usually have a small strip label fixed to the magnet, etc.
Once you've seen one, they are easy to recognize.

[Enzo]

Keep in mind this is an FM212R, a Fender entry level product.  it is on the do not repair list.  It is very doubtful any parts in it are not from China.   If Eminence has a Chinese plant supplying the Fender plant, so be it, but until I see as 67 on the speaker, I won;t believe it.

[joecool85]

it is on the do not repair list.

I don't even have a do not repair list.  I'll try to fix pretty much anything within reason.  I see a lot of good in those 212 amps, heck, at minimum they have a decent cab that you could use as a chassis for a new amp project of your own.

[J M Fahey]

Hi joecool, what Enzo means is that *Fender* has them in the "do not repair* list, meaning they won't send you some parts plus paying you $50 to fix it. They'll rather send you a new one.
Chilling.
The day Eminence sets up a plant in China, will be a very sad day for American industry , and America in general.
They are one of the very few who keep the flag up.
Oh well.

[joecool85]

Hi joecool, what Enzo means is that *Fender* has them in the "do not repair* list, meaning they won't send you some parts plus paying you $50 to fix it. They'll rather send you a new one.
Chilling.
The day Eminence sets up a plant in China, will be a very sad day for American industry , and America in general.
They are one of the very few who keep the flag up.
Oh well.

That's sad that Fender would rather ship a whole new amp than fix it.  Wonder what happens to all the "junk" ones.  I'd gladly take them off someone's hands.

I still try to buy American made products, when I can't I will go to Canadian or Mexican made (in that order).  After that it doesn't much matter to me, although stuff made in the UK does rank higher than others across the pond.

This is one of the reasons I'm looking at a Richmond guitar as opposed to a PRS-SE (can't afford a regular PRS).  As for amps, I'm going to stick with making them myself...how much more American can it be? lol