Im sorry that you dont understand what Im saying, but I dont think you know what a cliff jack does ?

You cut the wires from the amp and install them on the right side of the cliff jack. Now you run the speaker
wires to the left side of the cliff jack that has leaves that lift up when you insert the speaker cable from
the Vox or the Orange amp out jack.  When you insert the speaker jack, the entire amp system is
taken off the grid totally, and only the speakers get used.   I used a 9 volt battery to make sure
that both speakers are in phase and it works perfectly, so I dont know why you keep returning
with negative answers.   I dont use it with the Vox much any more, but I do use it a lot
with the Micro terror as it fits into the back bottom of the 212R with the speaker cord and
everything really well and its nice to get different sounds.
  I unplug the 212r as Im not using it, only the two speakers.

  It is totally ok to run a 4ohm amp into a 16 ohm cab. The rule is that you can mismatch ohms as long as you mismatch lower rather than higher

 It's been awhile, and I just remember
That my vox and my orange micro
Have a 4 ohm out jack, and that
is why I rewired the frontman speakers
from parellel to series, to make them
4 ohms.
  When using the cliff jack, you never
Have the frontman turned on, nor plugged
in, for that matter. It works great, with
no danger to either system.

   So I double checked the way I wired the fender and the amp power white went to the left speaker white and then to all of the other ones
in the proper order.  I did the 9 volt battery test and the right speaker moved where you could see it, but the left speaker did not seem to
move at all.  I put my finger gently on the cone and I could feel it going IN when power was given, and out when power was turned off, and it
felt the same on both speakers. They both went in and then out.   I saw the right speaker seem to move to the left slightly, but the left speaker
did not appear to move at all. 

I have learned so much here, and its so nice to be able to come to a website for information and get really good info and facts.

  Thank You all so much for all of your help, It is so much appreciated  !!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike

  Thank you Roly and Enzo so much for explaining this to me.  I really like this website as Ive learned so much here and people seem to
be very patient with nubes like me. I appreciate the knowledge I have gained and just want to thank you all so much !!!!!!!!

Wow, I am learning so much, and thank
You all so much for your answers !
  I will check the phasing later today
on the Fender amp. You guys are the best !!!

    I am trying to understand this Impedance stuff, and it is making me crazy trying to totally understand.
I have a Vox AC15C2 combo amp that is 16 ohms. There is a extension speaker OUT jack in the back with a 4/8/16 ohm switch.   
  I bought a used Fender Frontman 212R that was rated at 4 ohms. I rewired the fender speakers in series that made them 16 ohms,
the same as the Vox. Then I put the switch on the back of the Vox to 8 ohms and using a Cliff Jack on the Fender to separate the amp
from the speakers, Im able to run all 4 speakers from the Vox amp power.  Im using a 12 gauge speaker 10 foot cord.

  My question is that the Vox speakers seem to be a lot louder then the fender speakers.   The Vox ones are 35 watts and the fenders are 50.

  Can anyone tell me why the vox speakers are louder    Should I have bought a lesser gauge wire for the speaker wire that goes from the vox to the fender

Thanks for your help with this.

   OK, one last question I have..........

  The speakers in the Fender are 50 watts each. The speakers in the Vox are 35 watts.   If all speakers are now 8 ohms, why does the volume seem louder
in the vox then the fender ??

  I will have to separate them later today to get a more accurate idea of this, but sitting near the speakers, the vox seemed to way overpower
the sound coming out of the Fender.

  I bought 12 gauge speaker wire, should I have bought 18 for less resistance

  Thanks !!!!

  I just could not wait, I went and hooked it up and I am happy to say that it worked !!!!!!!!

The tube amp Vox seems to overpower the fender speakers by quite a bit, as I do have them close together and next
to one another, but if I were to separate the fender from the vox by the 10 foot speaker cable, and stand in the middle
I think the vox side would be louder.

I did unplug the 110V cord from the fender combo and was so happy that good sound does come out of those speakers.

When I stuck my head down near the right vox and left fender, they both sounded great in each ear.

  I am so happy that with all of your help, I was able to do a project that some others said could not be done.

  I may not use it this way all that much, unless I do separate the twins, but I do really like the Fender amp and I am very
very happy that everything I wanted came to fruition and worked out great !!!


Thank you all from the bottom of my heart, I appreciate so much what you did for me, and I hope others that may read this and want to try it out too !!
:tu:

  Sure as heck I had put an extra jumper cable in.  I have now removed it and everything goes from a + to a - now.

Works great and sounds great and Im glad I caught it from the photo and not YOU guys as it means
Im actually learning something here !!!!!!!!   YEA  !!!!

Catch you all tomorrow !!!!

  I have hooked up the Frontman 212R in series as instructed, and afterwards I plugged
in and tested it as a normal combo and it works great and the sound is just fine.

  I am going to wait another day before I unplug the power cord on the 212R and then
plug in the speaker 12ga cord to the Vox extension speaker out and switch the
selector switch to 8 ohms.

  I just want to give everyone a chance to say its ok now......

  I guess a solid state amp is a lot more forgiving then a tube amp.  The 212R was made to
put 4 ohms out to 4 ohm speakers and now that its 8 ohms, I just dont know how the unbalance
( or change ) does not end up hurting the speakers or the amp.   I did see where the speakers were
8 ohm right out of the factory I think on the speaker.


((( EDIT)))   after looking at the photo  I think I may have to switch the two wires on the left hand speaker in order for this to be correct.
When I look at the right side speaker, the white wire + is going to the left speaker White + and it should not be.

I also said that in series its now 8 ohms, but then I was reading things on here and it said now I have 16 ohms, but when I hook up the vox, then they will all be 8 ohms.

So even though it sounded good, Im going to go double check that its always + to a - for every jumper and wire.

Thanks everyone !!!!      I may not even be crazy about the sound of using 4 speakers, but I do like
the sound of the Fender Frontman 212R, so no matter what, Im very happy I bought this Amp  !!!

Thank you all so much for your help with this project  !!!!!!!!!!   Tomorrow is the Day to Test !!!!!!!!!!

  Well this has been a roller coaster of emotions on my part.....   I can/cant/can/cant......but now I can....   and that is WONDERFUL news !!!!  YEA  !!!!!!!

  I only paid 10 bucks for the speaker cord and 10 bucks for the 2 jacks,  so I was not all that concerned if it didnt work, as I really like the fender amp a lot !!!

   Now that I "CAN" do what I want, I also want to learn a little more about electronics and impedance and the rules where you mulitply or divide or add
and come up with the solutions.   

  I am so thankful for all of the help that Ive received on this channel.  Ive gone to fender and vox and other places and no where was as informative and
as nice as the people on here, and I thank you all so much for helping a newb out.

Im excited to rewire the fender and test it out now, I will get back and let you all know how it sounds !!!!

  Thank You  !!!!!!!!!

 I was just coming here to ask about the impedance, and everyone beat me to it. I wired up the Cliff jack and
everything is working perfectly as a normal 212R without anything plugged into the new cliff jack.

  http://s968.photobucket.com/user/CTguy1955/media/212Rmod_zps1836f515.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

I knew that the 212R was 4 ohms, and I received the new proper speaker cable today, so I was coming
here to make sure about the ohms before I tried anything out.

If that switch in the back of the Vox that has 16 and 4 ohm rating is not for what I wanted, then I just did all this for nothing ?
Using extension in jack on the vox is the only way I can have all 4 speakers turn on, which is why I did this whole mod in the first place.....

If I have to rewire the speakers in the 212R, then what about using it as a normal Frontman combo?  If I rewire it and change
the speakers from 4 to 8 ohms, wont the signal coming out of the 212R be rated at 4 ohms and mess up the amp or speakers ?

Im sorry I dont know about this stuff, its why I came here for help.

Worse case scenario is I just bought myself a really nice used amp that I like a lot, but I bought the 212R to have a extension speaker as in having 4 speakers on, not 2.


I wont do a thing, I will leave it as is, until I know that I wont hurt anything. At least right now with the Mod I did, I could plug another head into my fender and just use the speakers as is right now, as long as its 4 ohms like the micro terror orange amp for 149 bucks.

Im glad I knew enough not to plug anything in and try it out without coming here first.
***********************************************************************************************************

When you plug into the "EXTERNAL SP" jack, The internal speaker is disconnected. And you must set the impedance switch to match the external speaker cabinet. The jack it's self is switched to disconnect the internal speaker when you use it.

When you plug into the "EXTENSION SP" jack. The internal speaker is put in parallel with the external speaker cabinet.
The external cabinet must be 16 Ohms.
And the impedance switch must be set to 8 ohms.
This is because the 16 Ohms of the extension cabinet in parallel with the 16 Ohms of the internal speaker, equals 8 Ohms.

Do not plug an 8 Ohm load into the "EXTENSION SP" jack under any circumstances.

So when I read the ABOVE, it means I cant use my setup at all   wow, what a bummer. 

Yes, Thank You.   I realize that it cant be used in that manner.

I cant believe how much I like the sound of the Fender Amp !!!   For a solid state, Im just so happy !!!   

I was just reading about the upcoming new Mustang IV V2 combo with twin speakers ( wont fit in my entertainment cabinet ) and how
they may have upgraded the power supply and that fixed the FIZZ.  I had one, but traded it in towards the Vox because of the FIZZ.

The 212R is so quiet when your on clean channel really loud and you put your guitar on the stand........Silence  is Golden !!!

I have not tried it out with any pedals, but I love the clean sound so much.   

I received the cliff jack in the mail today and now its all clear as to how the right side all stays put and that all three leaves lift up
in the air and disconnect things.  I wont be installing it for awhile as I dont have the speaker wire yet, and Im in no rush.

With the other statement I made about the head, was that most all of the 2 x 12 cabs were all 200 and over, and I paid 200 for this
combo amp, so its like I paid for the 2 x 12 cab, and got the head for free ( meaning the power amp was practically free compared to just a cab ).

Thank you all and I look forward to getting back to you with how it worked out.

I look forward to reading about the new V2 models when they come out soon.

Quote from: g1 on April 08, 2013, 12:09:49 PM

Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

  Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available.  That would be another scenario.

  yes, but the subject tells you I want to use my ac15c2 extension out as the amp (head) that will drive just the speakers of the Fender FM 212R speakers.

I did receive it via UPS truck today and I am VERY happy with the sound of it just the way it is now. The clean sounds are magnificent for a solid state amp.
If you dont touch the strings on your guitar, all you hear is perfect quiet and nothing else.

When the jack comes in the mail, I will do the modification and the 10 foot 12 gauge speaker cable is on the way too.

Quote from: g1 on April 07, 2013, 10:53:24 AM
  Don't feel bad, we all start from the same place, the beginning!  Sounds like you've got it now.
  The tip connection does not lift as high as the others because of the "notch" of the male plug tip.  However, it still lifts enough to break the connection between tip and tip switch.
  So the way you have drawn the jack connecting to the amp is correct.
You said "The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power", but it is the black that is ground, which is why it connects to the sleeve.  Tip normally carries the hot signal, sleeve is ground.
  The two contacts that you are not using here are called "ring" and "ring switch".  They are usually only used when the jack will be used with TRS (or stereo) plugs.

  Thank You so much........   Now that Ive slept well, I still feel like a bit of a jerk, but Ill get over it as soon as I have my Vox hooked up to my 212R this coming Wednesday or Thursday. I called the Portsmouth New Hampshire store and had them put a 10 ft 12GA speaker wire with two 1/4" jacks on each end, so that I can do what I want. Had I not
bothered to look into this a little, I would have used a guitar cord and messed things up.   We learn by doing, but somethings doing is bad.

Thanks to you, the doing will be fine in this case and I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a
100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!

I so appreciate your help very much. So many others said it couldnt be done at all and I felt it could. You proved them WRONG and I appreciate it very much !!!!!

I will upload a small youtube video of the system when I get it up and running to show you how I made out with this !!!!!!!!!!!