http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21234847&postcount=2
I just ordered a used Frontman 212R from guitar center and it will be here in a few days. As its used, I dont mind drilling some holes in it and
installing some new jacks to help with what I would like to accomplish.
The manual I downloaded about the Fender 212R is very sketchy to me, in that M makes it sound like you can hook up another head amp to the 212r and just use the speakers and not the 212 head.
The above photos show a stereo jack with leaves that can lift up when a jack is inserted. If I were to intall one of these in the 212, and hook up the 212 amp and then the speakers to the proper poles......you can use the 212 like a normal combo amp........but if I hook up other wires to the speakers only and you put in a speaker wire male jack
( not guitar wire cable, I learned that much ) then I could run the two speakers from the 212 back to the extension out jack on my Vox AC15C2, and use the 212 just as an extension cab ?????
Any help with what parts or wires to buy would be helpful, and I appreciate the help very much.
Thank You all very much !!!
Yes, you can do that with a switching jack like in the article you linked to. However, don't do it that way as they are creating an amp output jack but you want to create a speaker input jack. It is also very important that you label your jack as "speaker input".
You will find a white and black wire coming out of the amp chassis going to the speakers. You will need to cut those wires so you can wire the jack in series between the chassis and the speakers.
So after you cut them, you will have a white and a black going to the amp chassis, and a white and black going into the speaker cab.
Here is a drawing with the type of jack you referenced. I have labelled the pins with their proper names and shown where they should connect to. Hope it will make sense to you.
Thank You so much for your help, and Im so glad I can do this !!!!!!! YEA !!!!!! Im the only one going to be using it, so I will put the jack in the back of the amp so no one else
can even see it.
I appreciate your help very much !!!
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 06, 2013, 11:56:14 PM
Thank You so much for your help, and Im so glad I can do this !!!!!!! YEA !!!!!! Im the only one going to be using it, so I will put the jack in the back of the amp so no one else
can even see it.
I appreciate your help very much !!!
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Jacks/9-lug_Stereo_Jack.html Im wondering if I should buy the
stewmac 9 pin, as I dont see how your diagram is going to get the speakers to work with a Mono male jack inserted into it. I can see
where the leaves will rise and disconnect the amp from the speakers, but not how the speakers are still connected still.
Im such a newb, and Im very sorry if I just dont understand all of this, but the photos of the jack dont tell me very much about what happens
to both sides when a male jack is inserted. From the photo I guess that only one side gets lifted up and the photo here makes it look
like ONLY the 2 and 3 leave have lifted and not the number 1. If all on right side stay connected and all three on right are disconnected, then
how does a single mono jack do it? The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power ???/
I cant say Im sorry enough, but I just want to make sure I dont screw it up. If you say your diagram is all I need, then I believe you, I just
dont know how the jack works. Thanks Bro !!!!
Its late and Im tired, Sorry about spelling errors and I think Im over thinking this. I should just delete that last entry as it makes me look like the jerk that I feel I am.
The male jack with the tip and ring carry the + and the - signal from the vox and when the male jack is inserted, the amp is disconnected, but the current from the
vox now flows into the two speakers and it does everything I asked of you.
I appreciate your help and I will go to bed now and dream of going to electronics school for years so Im not a dummy.
Thank You !!!!!!!!!!!!
http://s968.photobucket.com/user/CTguy1955/media/MikesGuitars003.jpg.html?sort=3&o=76
I had help in doing the diagram and hooking up of my 2006 strat with all new inside parts. Im attaching the diagram.
Don't feel bad, we all start from the same place, the beginning! Sounds like you've got it now.
The tip connection does not lift as high as the others because of the "notch" of the male plug tip. However, it still lifts enough to break the connection between tip and tip switch.
So the way you have drawn the jack connecting to the amp is correct.
You said "The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power", but it is the black that is ground, which is why it connects to the sleeve. Tip normally carries the hot signal, sleeve is ground.
The two contacts that you are not using here are called "ring" and "ring switch". They are usually only used when the jack will be used with TRS (or stereo) plugs.
Quote from: g1 on April 07, 2013, 10:53:24 AM
Don't feel bad, we all start from the same place, the beginning! Sounds like you've got it now.
The tip connection does not lift as high as the others because of the "notch" of the male plug tip. However, it still lifts enough to break the connection between tip and tip switch.
So the way you have drawn the jack connecting to the amp is correct.
You said "The tip is the white ( ground ) and the single circle around the shaft is the power", but it is the black that is ground, which is why it connects to the sleeve. Tip normally carries the hot signal, sleeve is ground.
The two contacts that you are not using here are called "ring" and "ring switch". They are usually only used when the jack will be used with TRS (or stereo) plugs.
Thank You so much........ Now that Ive slept well, I still feel like a bit of a jerk, but Ill get over it as soon as I have my Vox hooked up to my 212R this coming Wednesday or Thursday. I called the Portsmouth New Hampshire store and had them put a 10 ft 12GA speaker wire with two 1/4" jacks on each end, so that I can do what I want. Had I not
bothered to look into this a little, I would have used a guitar cord and messed things up. We learn by doing, but somethings doing is bad.
Thanks to you, the doing will be fine in this case and I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a
100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!
I so appreciate your help very much. So many others said it couldnt be done at all and I felt it could. You proved them WRONG and I appreciate it very much !!!!!
I will upload a small youtube video of the system when I get it up and running to show you how I made out with this !!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: ctguy1955I still feel like a bit of a jerk
Like you were
born knowing about the wide range of 1/4-inch jack hardware? I've been doing this stuff for 50-odd years and I
still check jacks (sockets) with a plug and ohmmeter to be sure I've got it right.
I knew a young fella who managed to connect 240VAC mains to the 5 volt power input of a brand new Single Board Computer simply because he was too arrogant to ask me. FLASH! BANG! About $1000 worth of damage in a few milliseconds because he really
was a jerk. You're not even in the same country much less the same ballpark - don't be so hard on yourself; if you continue doing electronics stuff you will always be making mistakes, and if you can't handle that then you had better take up flower arranging or basket we... no, wait.
None of us were born knowing, and they insist on inventing
new stuff all the time - I'm a
tech and I can't operate an i-Anything, etc, etc. :duh
Quote from: ctguy1955100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!
And we'll help you fix that too. ;)
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available. That would be another scenario.
Quote from: g1 on April 08, 2013, 12:09:49 PM
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available. That would be another scenario.
yes, but the subject tells you I want to use my ac15c2 extension out as the amp (head) that will drive just the speakers of the Fender FM 212R speakers.
I did receive it via UPS truck today and I am VERY happy with the sound of it just the way it is now. The clean sounds are magnificent for a solid state amp.
If you dont touch the strings on your guitar, all you hear is perfect quiet and nothing else.
When the jack comes in the mail, I will do the modification and the 10 foot 12 gauge speaker cable is on the way too.
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 09, 2013, 08:57:21 PM
Quote from: g1 on April 08, 2013, 12:09:49 PM
Quote from: ctguy1955 on April 07, 2013, 08:44:20 PM
I will be able to not only have a nice 2 x 12 Cab for my extension speakers for 199 bucks, I will also be gaining a 100 watt head for free !!!!!!!!!!!
Just so you don't get ahead of yourself, this jack is only a "speaker in" , not "amp out" so you do not have a separate head available. That would be another scenario.
yes, but the subject tells you I want to use my ac15c2 extension out as the amp (head) that will drive just the speakers of the Fender FM 212R speakers.
Sorry about the confusion here, I am talking about the Fender amp. You said you now have a 100W head. All I'm saying is it will not be able to be used as a "head" to drive some other speaker cab. That would require a different wiring scheme.
With the extra jack wired the way I have shown, the Fender can be used as a combo amp with it's own speakers, or as a speaker cabinet. It will not be able to be used as a separate amp "head".
You did not indicate you were interested in that, so I did not consider it.
Yes, Thank You. I realize that it cant be used in that manner.
I cant believe how much I like the sound of the Fender Amp !!! For a solid state, Im just so happy !!!
I was just reading about the upcoming new Mustang IV V2 combo with twin speakers ( wont fit in my entertainment cabinet ) and how
they may have upgraded the power supply and that fixed the FIZZ. I had one, but traded it in towards the Vox because of the FIZZ.
The 212R is so quiet when your on clean channel really loud and you put your guitar on the stand........Silence is Golden !!!
I have not tried it out with any pedals, but I love the clean sound so much.
I received the cliff jack in the mail today and now its all clear as to how the right side all stays put and that all three leaves lift up
in the air and disconnect things. I wont be installing it for awhile as I dont have the speaker wire yet, and Im in no rush.
With the other statement I made about the head, was that most all of the 2 x 12 cabs were all 200 and over, and I paid 200 for this
combo amp, so its like I paid for the 2 x 12 cab, and got the head for free ( meaning the power amp was practically free compared to just a cab ).
Thank you all and I look forward to getting back to you with how it worked out.
I look forward to reading about the new V2 models when they come out soon.
Maybe you are forgetting a small detail:
afaik the Vox has 16 ohms only output, or maybe 8/16 , but that pair of Frontman speakers is wired for 4 ohms.
If so, you are not there yet.
Check your Vox user manual.
Quote from: J M Fahey on April 11, 2013, 02:40:51 AM
afaik the Vox has 16 ohms only output, or maybe 8/16 , but that pair of Frontman speakers is wired for 4 ohms.
Oops! Thanks JM, I had forgot to consider impedances.
The Fender speakers wiring will have to be changed from parallel to series (simple). Then it will be an 8 ohm cabinet.
The Vox has an 8/16 switch on the back which will have to be set to 8. The Fender cab will have to be plugged into the EXTERNAL spkr. jack, not the extension jack. This will mean the Vox's own speaker can not be used at the same time.
When used by itself, the Fender amp will give a tiny bit less power into the 8 ohm cab than the 4 ohm stock cab wiring.
ctguy1955, I hope this is still a workable scenario for you.
Mmmmh, those Frontman speakers in series will give you either 4 or 16 ohms total, never 8.
I was just coming here to ask about the impedance, and everyone beat me to it. I wired up the Cliff jack and
everything is working perfectly as a normal 212R without anything plugged into the new cliff jack.
http://s968.photobucket.com/user/CTguy1955/media/212Rmod_zps1836f515.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0
I knew that the 212R was 4 ohms, and I received the new proper speaker cable today, so I was coming
here to make sure about the ohms before I tried anything out.
If that switch in the back of the Vox that has 16 and 4 ohm rating is not for what I wanted, then I just did all this for nothing ????
Using extension in jack on the vox is the only way I can have all 4 speakers turn on, which is why I did this whole mod in the first place.....
If I have to rewire the speakers in the 212R, then what about using it as a normal Frontman combo? If I rewire it and change
the speakers from 4 to 8 ohms, wont the signal coming out of the 212R be rated at 4 ohms and mess up the amp or speakers ????
Im sorry I dont know about this stuff, its why I came here for help.
Worse case scenario is I just bought myself a really nice used amp that I like a lot, but I bought the 212R to have a extension speaker as in having 4 speakers on, not 2.
I wont do a thing, I will leave it as is, until I know that I wont hurt anything. At least right now with the Mod I did, I could plug another head into my fender and just use the speakers as is right now, as long as its 4 ohms like the micro terror orange amp for 149 bucks.
Im glad I knew enough not to plug anything in and try it out without coming here first.
***********************************************************************************************************
When you plug into the "EXTERNAL SP" jack, The internal speaker is disconnected. And you must set the impedance switch to match the external speaker cabinet. The jack it's self is switched to disconnect the internal speaker when you use it.
When you plug into the "EXTENSION SP" jack. The internal speaker is put in parallel with the external speaker cabinet.
The external cabinet must be 16 Ohms.
And the impedance switch must be set to 8 ohms.
This is because the 16 Ohms of the extension cabinet in parallel with the 16 Ohms of the internal speaker, equals 8 Ohms.
Do not plug an 8 Ohm load into the "EXTENSION SP" jack under any circumstances.
So when I read the ABOVE, it means I cant use my setup at all ??? wow, what a bummer.
Quote
When you plug into the "EXTERNAL SP" jack, The internal speaker is disconnected. And you must set the impedance switch to match the external speaker cabinet. The jack it's self is switched to disconnect the internal speaker when you use it.
When you plug into the "EXTENSION SP" jack. The internal speaker is put in parallel with the external speaker cabinet.
The external cabinet must be 16 Ohms.
And the impedance switch must be set to 8 ohms.
This is because the 16 Ohms of the extension cabinet in parallel with the 16 Ohms of the internal speaker, equals 8 Ohms.
Do not plug an 8 Ohm load into the "EXTENSION SP" jack under any circumstances.
So when I read the ABOVE, it means I cant use my setup at all ??? wow, what a bummer.
Why do you say so? :(
If you rewire the FM212 speakers in series they now have 16 ohms total and are **perfect** as *Extension Speakers* for your Vox amp.
You will hear *both* the internal 16 ohms speaker *and* the external 16 ohms cabinet.
Isn't that what you wanted?
Quote from: g1 on April 11, 2013, 11:42:03 AM
Quote from: J M Fahey on April 11, 2013, 02:40:51 AM
afaik the Vox has 16 ohms only output, or maybe 8/16 , but that pair of Frontman speakers is wired for 4 ohms.
Oops! Thanks JM, I had forgot to consider impedances.
The Fender speakers wiring will have to be changed from parallel to series (simple). Then it will be an 8 ohm cabinet.
The Vox has an 8/16 switch on the back which will have to be set to 8. The Fender cab will have to be plugged into the EXTERNAL spkr. jack, not the extension jack. This will mean the Vox's own speaker can not be used at the same time.
When used by itself, the Fender amp will give a tiny bit less power into the 8 ohm cab than the 4 ohm stock cab wiring.
ctguy1955, I hope this is still a workable scenario for you.
Sorry about this, it is incorrect. To quote you from an earlier post "I should just delete that last entry as it makes me look like the jerk that I feel I am" :)
JM is completely correct, if you rewire the fender speakers in series, you will have a 16 ohm cab. (not 8 ohm as I incorrectly stated).
Then you can set the Vox amp to the 8 ohm position and use the EXTENSION spkr. jack. All 4 speakers will be working.
As I mentioned earlier, when you use the Fender by itself, it will be putting out a little less power than with the stock wiring, but I doubt you will even notice the difference.
If you need, here is a picture of series and parallel wiring of the 2 speakers. Pay close attention to the + and - terminals of the speakers in the series arrangement.
http://www.svvintageamps.com/images/2-speaker-wiring-diagram.gif
Well this has been a roller coaster of emotions on my part..... I can/cant/can/cant......but now I can.... and that is WONDERFUL news !!!! YEA !!!!!!!
I only paid 10 bucks for the speaker cord and 10 bucks for the 2 jacks, so I was not all that concerned if it didnt work, as I really like the fender amp a lot !!!
Now that I "CAN" do what I want, I also want to learn a little more about electronics and impedance and the rules where you mulitply or divide or add
and come up with the solutions.
I am so thankful for all of the help that Ive received on this channel. Ive gone to fender and vox and other places and no where was as informative and
as nice as the people on here, and I thank you all so much for helping a newb out.
Im excited to rewire the fender and test it out now, I will get back and let you all know how it sounds !!!!
Thank You !!!!!!!!!
I have hooked up the Frontman 212R in series as instructed, and afterwards I plugged
in and tested it as a normal combo and it works great and the sound is just fine.
I am going to wait another day before I unplug the power cord on the 212R and then
plug in the speaker 12ga cord to the Vox extension speaker out and switch the
selector switch to 8 ohms.
I just want to give everyone a chance to say its ok now......
I guess a solid state amp is a lot more forgiving then a tube amp. The 212R was made to
put 4 ohms out to 4 ohm speakers and now that its 8 ohms, I just dont know how the unbalance
( or change ) does not end up hurting the speakers or the amp. I did see where the speakers were
8 ohm right out of the factory I think on the speaker.
((( EDIT))) after looking at the photo I think I may have to switch the two wires on the left hand speaker in order for this to be correct.
When I look at the right side speaker, the white wire + is going to the left speaker White + and it should not be.
I also said that in series its now 8 ohms, but then I was reading things on here and it said now I have 16 ohms, but when I hook up the vox, then they will all be 8 ohms.
So even though it sounded good, Im going to go double check that its always + to a - for every jumper and wire.
Thanks everyone !!!! I may not even be crazy about the sound of using 4 speakers, but I do like
the sound of the Fender Frontman 212R, so no matter what, Im very happy I bought this Amp !!!
Thank you all so much for your help with this project !!!!!!!!!! Tomorrow is the Day to Test !!!!!!!!!!
Sure as heck I had put an extra jumper cable in. I have now removed it and everything goes from a + to a - now.
Works great and sounds great and Im glad I caught it from the photo and not YOU guys as it means
Im actually learning something here !!!!!!!! YEA !!!!
Catch you all tomorrow !!!!
I just could not wait, I went and hooked it up and I am happy to say that it worked !!!!!!!!
The tube amp Vox seems to overpower the fender speakers by quite a bit, as I do have them close together and next
to one another, but if I were to separate the fender from the vox by the 10 foot speaker cable, and stand in the middle
I think the vox side would be louder.
I did unplug the 110V cord from the fender combo and was so happy that good sound does come out of those speakers.
When I stuck my head down near the right vox and left fender, they both sounded great in each ear.
I am so happy that with all of your help, I was able to do a project that some others said could not be done.
I may not use it this way all that much, unless I do separate the twins, but I do really like the Fender amp and I am very
very happy that everything I wanted came to fruition and worked out great !!!
Thank you all from the bottom of my heart, I appreciate so much what you did for me, and I hope others that may read this and want to try it out too !!
:tu:
OK, one last question I have..........
The speakers in the Fender are 50 watts each. The speakers in the Vox are 35 watts. If all speakers are now 8 ohms, why does the volume seem louder
in the vox then the fender ?????
I will have to separate them later today to get a more accurate idea of this, but sitting near the speakers, the vox seemed to way overpower
the sound coming out of the Fender.
I bought 12 gauge speaker wire, should I have bought 18 for less resistance ???
Thanks !!!!
You asked this same question in a different thread, and I responded there. I'm not going to re-enter it here too. Go look.
One thing to be sure of is phasing.
You have wired your fenders in series. It is critical they also be in phase. Hot wire from amp/jack to the + of spkr1, a jumper from - of spkt1 to + of spkr2, then from - of spkr2 a wire back to the ground of the amp/jack.
A simple test:
PLug a cord into your Fender jack, as you would to connect it to your Vox. Now at the free end of the cord, touch the plug tip to one terminal of a 9v battery, and lower the shaft of the plug down to touch the remaining terminal momentarily. Each touch wshould result in a thump or pop from the speaker. By itself that is a good test to see if a speaker even works.
But in a two speaker cab, it makes both speakers move. SO watch the cones closely as you touch the battery. The cones will move a little ways in one direction. It is important that both move the SAME direction. If not, then one is wired backwards. Out of phase speakers make the same amount of sound, but being out of phase, the sounds cancel so it is a lot less loud.l
The Fender issued speakers, although not bad, are much cheaper than the Vox issued ones, hence the lower sensitivity, attack, chime, etc.
They work well in the Fender because the 100W amp "pushes" them forward, like it or not.
Sort of a brute force approach.
But in a 15W amp, every fraction of a dB counts.
Now you see the origin of one of the myths: that "tube watts" are more than "SS watts".
It's not so, I have tested that to death for the last 40 years, but the usual (very unfair) comparison is, say, an expensive 15W tube amp ... driving 2 12" Celestions/Jensen/"good" (read expensive) Eminence, in a big cabinet, vs. a cheap SS 15W practice amp, in a shoebox sized cabinet with a weak tiny magnet 8" or 10" generic speaker.
At my shop I once had for a couple months a Mesa Boogie 4x12" cabinet, with 2 Vintage 30 Celestions above, to provide attack, and 2 EVM12L below, to provide incredible low punch and "balls".
Driven by one of my standard SS 100W guitar heads it *smashed* most 100W Tube head + original speaker put beside it (think Twin Reverb, or Laney+412 same brand, etc.) and easily matched, say, a 100W JCM900 or SLX + 1960 cabinet.
Speakers matter much more than is usually acknowledged.
Just as a side note: we all remember many important bands in the early 70's used SS amps (think Creedence, Doors, Zeppelin, etc.)
Well, those old Kustom amps often had 2 (or 3 :o ) JBL15" speakers, same as a Dual Showman cabinet, the "good" Acoustics used 2 x 15" Altec Lansing, the Acoustic 360 Bass amplifier (used by *everybody*) had a Cerwin Vega "earthquake" 18" speaker in a fridge sized horn loaded box and so on.
I see in the other thread there might be a possibility of out of phase, so I addressed that.
Juan, I don;t want to launch the inevitable endless discussion, but the claim was never that tube watts were louder than solid state watts. The claim was that a 50 watt tube amp can be louder than a 50 watt solid state amp. And as Loudthud demonstrated, the tube amp was able to put a larger voltage across a speaker. But yes, if you want to generate X number of watts into the same speaker from the two types, they will have the same loudness. But that does not address the claim.
Cool. :cheesy:
Not starting anything, just "carrying an umbrella even on a sunny day", I wanted to avoid the *opposite* "automatic" assumption , that "SS watts are cr*p" and specially insisting on the importance of speaker efficiency, which seems to be the problem here.
:dbtu: :dbtu:
PS: and yes, they may even be wired out of phase as you hinted at in another post. :o
Quote from: ctguy1955I guess a solid state amp is a lot more forgiving then a tube amp.
Er ... no, 'tother way round actually, but each really dislikes opposite things. A solid-state amp is quite content to run into an open circuit all day, but doesn't like loads that are too low in impedance, and really don't like
short circuits which will destroy the output transistors. Valve amps are also quite tolerant of a range of impedances and won't complain too much about a short, but an
open speaker circuit may cause the output transformer to flash over and die.
Don't drive a transistor amp into a short; don't drive a valve amp into an open.
Wow, I am learning so much, and thank
You all so much for your answers !
I will check the phasing later today
on the Fender amp. You guys are the best !!!
So I double checked the way I wired the fender and the amp power white went to the left speaker white and then to all of the other ones
in the proper order. I did the 9 volt battery test and the right speaker moved where you could see it, but the left speaker did not seem to
move at all. I put my finger gently on the cone and I could feel it going IN when power was given, and out when power was turned off, and it
felt the same on both speakers. They both went in and then out. I saw the right speaker seem to move to the left slightly, but the left speaker
did not appear to move at all.
I have learned so much here, and its so nice to be able to come to a website for information and get really good info and facts.
Thank You all so much for all of your help, It is so much appreciated !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike
Hey guys, jumping in. Im interested in doing this to run a Epi Valve jr into a Frontman, my question is, in doing this would i be just pluggin in the speaker 4 ohm out into the switch and that would immediatly disconect the Fender and just work as a cab right? this seems a lot simpler than other solutions I have seen. thanks!
Quote from: juanjosebh on September 20, 2013, 07:19:15 PM
Hey guys, jumping in. Im interested in doing this to run a Epi Valve jr into a Frontman, my question is, in doing this would i be just pluggin in the speaker 4 ohm out into the switch and that would immediatly disconect the Fender and just work as a cab right? this seems a lot simpler than other solutions I have seen. thanks!
Sorry it not clear what you mean?
But if you disconnect the speaker from the Frontman Amp (at the Terminals on the speaker basket) then you can drive it with the Epi Amp.
Your suggestion sounds like you may end up connecting 2 Amp outputs which would cause a total failure of both amps. :'( :'( :'( :'(
Also Watch your impedance, if 2 8 Ohm speakers then the total is 4 Ohms.
Phil.
It's been awhile, and I just remember
That my vox and my orange micro
Have a 4 ohm out jack, and that
is why I rewired the frontman speakers
from parellel to series, to make them
4 ohms.
When using the cliff jack, you never
Have the frontman turned on, nor plugged
in, for that matter. It works great, with
no danger to either system.
Quote from: ctguy1955 on September 21, 2013, 10:08:03 PM
It's been awhile, and I just remember That my vox and my orange micro
Have a 4 ohm out jack, and that is why I rewired the frontman speakers
from parellel to series, to make them 4 ohms.
When using the cliff jack, you never Have the frontman turned on, nor plugged in, for that matter. It works great, with no danger to either system.
What you write is not clear but sounds wrong.
You seem to be connecting your Orange or Vox output into the Frontman back panel jack so sound travels down to the speakers through the internal wiring.
That is plain WRONG and your amp is alive just by Miracle.
Turning off or unplugging the Frontman does not remove its transistors from the speaker wiring.The proper way to do it is to disconnect the speaker terminals and rewire them to *another* cable where the external amp is connected.
And you are also mixing series with parallel.
Your speakers now give 16 ohms, go figure.
Im sorry that you dont understand what Im saying, but I dont think you know what a cliff jack does ?
You cut the wires from the amp and install them on the right side of the cliff jack. Now you run the speaker
wires to the left side of the cliff jack that has leaves that lift up when you insert the speaker cable from
the Vox or the Orange amp out jack. When you insert the speaker jack, the entire amp system is
taken off the grid totally, and only the speakers get used. I used a 9 volt battery to make sure
that both speakers are in phase and it works perfectly, so I dont know why you keep returning
with negative answers. I dont use it with the Vox much any more, but I do use it a lot
with the Micro terror as it fits into the back bottom of the 212R with the speaker cord and
everything really well and its nice to get different sounds.
I unplug the 212r as Im not using it, only the two speakers.
It is totally ok to run a 4ohm amp into a 16 ohm cab. The rule is that you can mismatch ohms as long as you mismatch lower rather than higher
QuoteIt is totally ok to run a 4ohm amp into a 16 ohm cab. The rule is that you can mismatch ohms as long as you mismatch lower rather than higher
That's NOT what you said.
Which actually was:
QuoteI rewired the frontman speakers
from parellel to series, to make them
4 ohms.
Well, that's plain WRONG.
Quote from: ctguy1955I rewired the frontman speakers from parellel to series, to make them 4 ohms.
So the speakers are 2 ohms each? That's
extremely unlikely. Wired in parallel that would present only 1 ohm to the amplifier which is unheard of in guitar amps.
The 212R specs on the Fender site;
Quote from: http://www.fender.com/en-AU/series/frontman/frontman-212r-120v/#featuresWattage: 100 Watts into 4 Ohms
Speaker: Two - 12" Fender® Special Design
Impedance: 4 ohms
The latter figure is the
total, not
individual speaker impedance that I would expect to be quoted under "speaker", which would make them 8 ohms each, and therefore 16 ohms total in series.
Quote from: ctguy1955I dont think you know what a cliff jack does ?
I'm sure
@JM knows very well what a switching jack can do, and about permissible load mismatch, but as he said "What you write is not clear but sounds wrong"; however what you wrote about rewiring your speakers "to series, to make them 4 ohms" is clear, and wrong.
1) A switching jack (cliff) was wired in SERIES between the Fender combo amp and it's speakers. It was wired up to be an input to the speakers, NOT an output from the Fender amp.
This enabled the Fender combo's speakers to be used as if they were a separate speaker cab.
2) The Fender speakers were re-wired so they would be in SERIES (16 ohm). The stock wiring had been parallel (4 ohm).
This was because the Vox amp had an extension speaker jack that was rated for 16 ohms, and the Fender speakers were to be used as an ext.spkr. for the Vox amp.
Quite so.
I'll just note here that if you try this trick on a valve/tube amp you a skating one shaved inch from disaster.
Drive a valve amp with the load accidentally disconnected and you can generally kiss goodbye to the output transformer, one of the most serious and expensive failures you can suffer. A valve/tube amp must never be operated with a load securely attached.