Want budget clean sound + reliability without modeling !@#$%

[phatt]

The suggestion of getting another Bandit might just be the simple solution to this thread   so I'm not worried about turning in another direction.

I'm a little hesitant to post this because these are very rough practice tracks done with just a couple cheap mis and overdubbed vox in places. The playing is a bit sloppy, because we were still in the process of figuring out what goes where. Also, just one side of my stereo mix is recorded, so I don't know if this is even helpful.

We're in the process of recording right now, so hopefully I'll replace these with much better recordings.   In any case, my current band is called The Janis Thorn and some clips are located here:     http://www.reverbnation.com/thejanisthorn

You have NO bottom End in those recordings.

For the stuff you recorded ,,, you will never need stereo and 3 Amps is mindless driville.

Oh yeah,,,Try and find a Bass player. 8|

Meanwhile read anything you can get your hands on about EQing recordings.

Re guitar stuff,,, Why do all you kids want to sound like U2? (Head scratch)
just learn to play without Delay,,, you will end up a far better player if you stick to basic guitar ability.


---
Re teck stuff;
You asked about Graphic /para EQ.
70/80's Hi Fi GEQ go for under $20 where I live and they are quite useful for guitar signal just pull down the sliders below 60 Hz and above 5kHz then tweak the rest till you get the sound.

Parametric EQ  is a little more brain twisting to grasp.

Rather that write forever,,, understand the concept of great tone:::::::::::::::

It is about what you ***DON"T HEAR**** rather that what you DO Hear that makes great sound.

**Cut what FREQ you don't want THEN turn up the volume other wise it sounds like crap**

That goes for Live as well as Recording,,, though you have to approach them a little different.

BTW,,Good drums ,, ,just mixed wrong. :tu:
Phil.

[phatt]

Oh This might help explain what would otherwise take hours to write:'(

Even when you have the perfect take it will all live or die via the mix down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSNYBbPAvKE&feature=player_embedded

This is fairly basic explaination of what may look insanely confusing. Oh The wonders of modern digi stuff.
cheers,, Phil.

[BigPolishJimmy]

Phil,

Thanks for the EQ links     I once considered using a stereo eq on my rig, but transitioning from rca to 1/4 cables made me think it might be too cobbled to deal with.  Do you run the eq in the effects loop or inline?

I knew about panning instruments to create sonic space, and I'd heard about creating areas in the mix for each instrument, but had no idea how to do it.  Thanks for that vid, that was really enlightening and made me realize I really don't know squat about mixing. 

Fun fact: the Edge is only 6 years older than me, but I don't mind being called a 'kid'

ps. I can shred if I want to, but you won't hear it in those clips because the guitar has got to serve the song. And I'm keeping my bass player.  He's smart, creative, and easy to get along with.  You know how hard it is to wade through the frustrated guitarists, timid beginners, and flakey bozos to get to jam with someone who not only gets your style, but can bring something creative to the table?  I know we won't be everyone's cup of tea, that's ok, we're playing what we want to hear. 

In any case, thanks again for the info, I appreciate it.   :dbtu:

I liked how the engineer was punching up the midrange in the guitar in the vid.  It made me laugh because many guitarists I know scoop the midrange.  It'd be funny if the engineers are just putting it back in during the mix. 

*edit*  also just wanted to be clear, those are 'practice' recordings... as in 'let's record what we play so we don't forget the arrangement' ... not practice mixes.    But you're dead on that we need to learn about eq and making a good recording mix.   I got a bunch of reading to do now.

[phatt]

Kid,, whoops I should refrain from quantifying ages.

Yes the term mid Scoop is the exact opposite of what is needed for metal.
A very misleading term and will frustrate the novice no end.
*you need a narrow mid notch CUT*.

Parametric are good at this trick just remember to turn the GAIN knob Down then sweep the notch. most folks end up boosting way to much which results in trashy sound.

The trick is to LOOSE something but not so much that you kill the sound.
Then turn up. (less noise is the added benefit,, ,wink.)

I just spent an hour searching for a great graph of all the instruments band widths but alas I can't find it anymore.
Not to worry I did remember this link another member here posted long time back and it goes indepth into sound recording with Emphasis on TONE.

http://www.digitalprosound.com/2002/03_mar/tutorials/mixing_excerpt1.htm

A lot to read but very good data. :dbtu:
Phil.

[mexicanyella]

A lot of good info here. I got a pretty good refresher on sweepable EQ cuts when playing with the notch filter on my Fender Acoustasonic amp the other day. Subtle but powerful.

FWIW, tastes as they apply to mix quality are very subjective. To my ear, sometimes a raw, live mix with a lot of room sound carries a lot of energy and is fun to listen to, which is how I reacted to the recorded clips. It sounds more like a gig and less like a modern (over)processed studio project. To me, at least. I guess it depends on what your ears are calibrated to.

[BigPolishJimmy]

wow, I've been away from this thread for a while too... yep, I'm a thread necromancer.  We took a hiatus from playing, but summer vacation has me back at it and I got to thinking about the 3-amp setup again, but then re-read this thread and have to once again bow to J M Fahey's wisdom of getting a second Bandit and just running stereo vs. 3 amps. 

I'm also rethinking J M Fahey's idea of rebuilding the Bandit cab to a lighter plywood instead of the mdf it's currently made of.  This also gives me an opportunity to sort of re-brand the look of it to chicken-head nobs and mount the faceplate on the top for a more vintage look.  I know it's not about the look, it's about the sound, but the Bandit has that 80's cheese-metal look and I'd really prefer something that was reminiscent of the British invasion.  I can always keep the cab and return everything to normal if the case mod doesn't perform.

*edit*  also, there are new mixes on my Janis Thorn reverb nation link, it's somewhere up the thread, or you can google the name if you want to hear it.  I'd post it here, but that's not my goal with this post. 

Finally, Sorry if I offend anyone by thread necromancing, but I do want to say thank you to the creators of this place for giving free access to useful information.  I'm feeing rather thankful to have gotten such good advice here.

[QReuCk]

I don't know for the regulars, but I haven't been visiting in quite some time and enjoyed the read.
If you want both the 3 amp setup and taking it a bit easyer on the back, consider the Envoy 110 instead of the bandit (maybe refit your existing one in a ply cab, and run an envoy in parallel with it).
Tip: Envoy 110's clean chanel does really benefit from either a clean boost or a boosted EQ in front of them in my opinion. The drive chanel will be hissy especially if you use the more gain switch, but you already stated you don't need that.
I know I'm not the only one over here to boost the clean chanel of a transtube.
Some other options that I saw recently would include the H&K edition blue, a Tech21 trademark 60 and if price isn't a problem, then have a look a DV Mark: they make a 120W 12' combo which weight almost nothing. More options are available on the used market (older Fenders, Roland cube 60 blue or JC60, Yamaha GA112...) and as they aren't tube amps, you can have them at reasonable prices.