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SS amp for blues and metal

Started by kin0, October 13, 2010, 08:42:35 AM

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kin0

Hay I want to build a SS amp. It will be a big project and I am sure it will take some time. I want an amp that I can play a texas blues with. Good clean cause the drive I can get from an tube screamer. For the dist channel I want as close as to late 80s' judas priest sound.
I built some fx pedals and modded a cry baby. I think I will be able to build a head if I'll take it slowly.
Any suggestions what to do or to build?

BTW I want it to be able to hold on drums and to make some gigs (I think I need more than 50 or 100 watt)

J M Fahey

Not sure about what you expect us to do.

armstrom

The simple approach:
1) Buy and build LM3886 chipamp kit and power supply into a metal box of some kind
2) Plug in your pedal board
3) Rawk

The slightly more complex approach:
1) Build LM3886 kit
2) Build a simple clean preamp with modest gain and tone controls (a ROG tonemender might be a good choice here. http://www.runoffgroove.com/tonemender.html )
3) Procure or build a suitable chassis and cabinet (head or combo, you didn't really mention which you were after, head is easier)
4) Plug in your pedal board
5) Rawk

The beauty of most modern SS amp chips is that they are dead clean. They're meant for HiFi use. This means that you can rely on your effects pedals to give you any kind of sound you want and the power amp simply makes it louder. All the tone shaping comes from your pedals and the fact that you're running the power amp through guitar speakers which have the right frequency response to produce a good guitar tone. The idea behind the more complex approach is to provide some additional gain in case your pedals don't have enough output to drive your power amp to max output. It also provides some more flexible tone controls as the tone knobs provided on most pedals are pretty crude.

-Matt

kin0

#3
Well I want to build an amp with dist channel. I want to be like a normal tube amp just an a ss amp (I mean 2 channels, fx loop, tone controls, reverb, etc...)
I want mostly late 80's judas priest sound for the dist channel or at least as close as possible. I own a marshall mg and don't really like the sound of my dist (metalmuff) and I prefer not to use alot of pedals.

J M Fahey

I'll repeat:
QuoteNot sure about what you expect us to do.
You are telling us what you want to do which is a very different thing.
Ok, to solve this apparent lack of communication, I'll have to guess what you think:
Do you want us to provide you with a project (schematic, boards, chassis plans, etc.) which fulfills
Quotean amp that I can play a texas blues with ... Good clean ... dist channel I want as close as to late 80s' judas priest sound ... 2 channels, fx loop, tone controls, reverb, etc ...
Well, I'm not aware that such a thing exists, certainly this Forum is not a "design on demand" site.
Please let me suggest you three realistic solutions to your problem.
1) Your MG (which model?) is very probably not as bad as you think, but it's heavily crippled by the lack of power (is it 10/15W?), the small and crummy speaker (8"/10"?), and the small open box.
Armstrom's suggestion is excellent: build a 50W chip amp, I add: get a real 12".
Jensen Mods are excellent and affordable, I suggest the MOD1270; or some 12" Eminence which you can buy cheap in EBay, from a guy who has replaced it with an expensive Celestion.
Make a larger box to stuff the whole enchilada.
You will have serious muscle to back you up, and can sit your MG on top of it , using it as a preamp.
The sound will blow you across the room.
2) Build the same but drive it with a Pedal Box you like, which provides all sounds "ready made"; your powered box provides the muscle.
3) Decide on a commercial amplifier you like, maybe a Laney, Crate, etc. 
Google its schematic and try to design a PCB, decide on a chassis layout, get somebody to fabricate it, draw the front panel you like, get the parts, build and debug it, etc.
4) This is an extra: get what you want used. You may even get a faulty one for free and repair it.
It will offer a good insight on technology and spare you the worst part of making an amp: the "mechanical" part, much much worse than the electronics side.
Good luck.

kin0

#5
I have an MG15cd. I wanted you to give me possible project that I can make. I didn't really understood how to use the MG as a preamp. And in the second solutions you mean to put a dist pedal in the amp chaisis and use it like a second channel? Can I put a shredmaster clone inside and use it like a dist channel (but disable the tone controls of the clean channel while the dist is on)?

J M Fahey

Hi Kin, now we are communicating better, no need to guess so much.
I have the MG15CDR schematic open in my screen.
1) That amp sounds *good*,  I tested one to which I added a line out, to drive one of my powered boxes as I described: 100W RMS into a 60x60x30 cm closed box, with 2x12" speakers.
Believe me, the sound was bone crushing.
.To try that, you don't even need to open it, later I learnt that the "CD in" is *also* a "line out".
You can plug a guitar cord there and drive anything you want.
I suggest you advance step by step, building first what you can use now and later.
1) Buy a good 12" guitar speaker ; 2 if you dare.
Make a box for them. Don't go overboard, unpainted MDF or Plywood *sounds* as good as anything else, copy the size of some box you like.
2) Get a chipamp kit and build it.
You may get a ready made cabinet or build it on a sheet of aluminum, which doubles as chassis and heatsink.
You may carve a suitable hole in your cabinet back or top and mount that chassis there, so it becomes a powered box and your MG sits on top of it.
3) What I had said earlier was that you could dispense of your MG entirely and build the powered box, driving it with a full blown effects pedal, such as a POD, VAmp, GT8, etc. , which furnish various sounds "already cooked".
4) What you seem to be asking, a full project or kit with those sounds, does not exust that I am aware of.
You have tons of TUBE kits, because they are expensive and people often wants obsolete amps that have a very limited market.
You will find a lot of 5E3 kits, none of Crate GFX212, Fender Performer or Marshall Valvestate !!!


kin0

#7
I prefer not to use the MG. I read little bit and though about one thing.

Build a chip amp kit.
Use a distortion pedal (Shredmaster) as a preamp.
Built another preamp for clean and put them on switch.

Also I wanted to ask is it better to read the amp handbook by j.darr or the book by temmu.

J M Fahey

Yes, that's a good idea, the Shredmaster (and the Guv'nor and the Jackhammer) are one full Marshall channel in pedal form, they can go straight into a chipamp.
For the clean channel, use the "Project 27" preamp by Rod Elliott.
http://sound.westhost.com/project27.htm
You can go from a single jack into both inputs, and modify the switching on the Shredmaster so that the output switch selects between the Shred output (as original) or the Elliott output, instead of the clean but boring input from the guitar.
Read both.
Start by Jack Darr's because it's more "generalpurpose"and covers a wider area, although not as deep; then get into Teemu's, which goes deeper.
I've read it 10 times, and every time I get something new.
Also download some commercial schematics, start by your own MG, and tryn to understand what each part or module does and why it was made that way and not another.
Good luck.

kin0

#9
Okay thanks. Just few more questions.
1. Is there any sound samples of this preamp?
2. Can I just use a dpdt switch for switching and switch both input and output (for the preamp)?
3. Which chipamp kit do you recommend me to buy?
4. How I power all the amp parts from one source?
6. How much ohms the amp output (to know for the cabinet) will be?
7. Can I add a foot-switch to change between the channels?
8. Do you have any good guide for how to build a cab and how to choose speakers?

kin0


phatt

kin0,
I quote from your first post:
""I think I will be able to build a head if I'll take it slowly.""
Good advice, Winky.

Then; ""Any suggestions what to do or to build?""

It's already been said.

Concentrate on the preamp first,, and try *ever so hard* to keep it simple.
RodE's site has already been mentioned and there is tons of stuff you need to know on that site.
Read Teemu's Free PDF book downloadable here.

Sorry chum but you give the impression that you just have to ask the right people and it will all fall into place. ::)
Some of your ideas would take weeks for even the hardened hobby chap to pull together.
For a novice that will likely convert to years of effort.
That said it can be very rewarding if you are very pa-pa-patient.
If you consider time an enemy,, then just purchase something already made or search these pages as I'm sure a few here have already done what you ask and a lot of research has gone into it.
It's up to you to find these postings and ask them for advice. Hey man they are not going to come to you. So Time to go dig 8)
Cheers, Phil.

Flypaper4Morons

Quote from: kin0 on October 14, 2010, 07:12:06 AM

8. Do you have any good guide for how to build a cab and how to choose speakers?


KinO,

As far as Cab Building is concerned you should check out my post on building a cab. My project is going slow but its coming together nicely.I give a parts list im using but i would suggest choosing your materials and parts based on whats econimical to your budget. Dont skimp on the speakers and make sure the speakers can handle the amp head your building in terms of Ohm load. Also be sure to use at least 3/4 Subflooring Plywoodif you must use ply wood. This is where i found my info for my project.
http://www.duncanamps.com/technical/speaker_cab.html
Good luck mate 8)