Hello everyone, I'm doing some research about vintage ss guitar amps. Eventually I'm going to pick one and use that as a base to my amp project. However there are many very nice sounding vintage ss amps out there. I need you to add to the this list the vintage ss amps that you had experience or that you heard good things about. Here's what I found so far. I heard nothing but good things about these amps
Trace Elliot Super Tramp
Gallien Kruger 250
Vox Venue
Fender Studio Lead
Fender Harvard Reverb II
Fender Showman
Rickenbacker TR-75
During the time I have gathered some list of those (all SS / hybrid with SS PA) guitar amps that tend to get mentioned in the "best SS" threads. This list does not include bass amps but features some amps geared towards pedal steel, acoustic and jazz-styled guitar playing. Naturally these amps are often quite different from "conventional" guitar amps. Just sort out the ones that do not qualify as "vintage" to you... ;)
Acoustic Control Corporation 134
Acoustic Control Corporation 150
Acoustic Control Corporation 260
Acoustic Control Corporation 330
Acoustic Image Contra
Acoustic Image Corus
Acoustic Image Coda
Acoustic Image Clarus
Acoustic Image Focus
ADA TriTube and QuadTube 150M
ADA Snake Series: Viper and Cobra
Ampeg SS140 & SS150
Ampeg VH140 & VH150
Award Session Sessionette SG75
Baldwin Custom
Baldwin Deluxe
Baldwin Exterminator
Dean Markley K-20X (practice)
Dean Markley K-65 & K-75
Electro-Harmonix Mike Matthews Dirt Road Special 112
Electro-Harmonix Freedom
Evans Custom Amplifiers 500 LV112
Fender Deluxe 112
Fender Jazz King
Fender London & Montreaux
Fender M-80
Fender Steel King
Fender Roc-Pro 1000
Carvin SX200 & SX300
Crate CR212
Crate GX-130C
Crate Power Block
Gallien-Krueger 250ML
Gallien-Krueger 212SC
Gallien-Krueger 300GT
Gallien-Krueger GS300
GMT 200G & 200GT
GMT 260A
H||H IC100L
H||H ICS100
Hughes & Kettner Attax 100
Hughes & Kettner Vortex
Hughes & Kettner ZenTera
ISP Technologies Theta Vector
Kustom K150 & K200
Kustom KGA-16 (mic it)
Lab Gruppen Axe-Amp
Lab Series L5, L7, L9 and L11
Legend A30
Legend Rock-n-Roll 50
Marshall Lead 20
Pearce Amplifier Systems G2R
Peavey Bandit 112 ('89)
Peavey Bandit 112 (TransTube)
Peavey Nashville 400
Peavey Stereo Chorus 212
Peavey Vegas 400
Peavey Vypyr
Pignose 7-100
Polytone Mega Brute
Polytone Mini Brute
Pritchard Amps Black Dagger
Pritchard Amps Sword Of Satori
Randall Cyclone
Randall RG100ES
Randall RH100
Randall Titan
Randall Warhead
Randall Warhead X2
Rickenbacker Transonic
Road Electronics 220
Roland Blues Cube 60
Roland Cube 60 (not the old one)
Roland JC-120 (cleans)
Roland Microcube (practice)
Standel Studio
Sunn Alpha 115
Sunn Coliseum
Sunn Beta Lead
Tech21 Trademark 60
Trace Elliot Studio 80
Trace Elliot Road C80 & H80 and C160 & H160
TubeWorks MOSValve 1160
Vox DA5 (practice)
Vox Berkeley II
Vox Buckingham
Vox Super Beatle
Vox Valvetronix AD120/160
Vox Valvetonix AD50VT/100VT
Vox Westminster
Vox VR15 (practice)
Yamaha G100-212
So, it seems that the research material surely doesn't run out anytime soon. ;D
wow thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for :) Any specific unconventional design (topologically) that you liked?
Well...
For instance, I like the tone control of the Peavey's steel guitar amps (e.g. Vegas and Nashville 400). It is very versatile: bass, mid-range and treble can be both boosted or cut – plus the mid-range frequency is sweepable throughout a quite large range. It's not your basic passive, "only-cutting", tone control similar to that found from 90% of guitar amps but it can do the very same things plus a whole lot more. The downside is the complexity but that circuit is likely the next best option in comparison to a full graphic equalizer. Schematics can be found from this forum.
Speaking of that... before you ask, the schematic section has my post containing links to various schematic sites. They are categorized by the manufacturer. Simply by following those links you can find the circuit diagrams to many of the amps I mention in this post - and plenty of others that I left unmentioned. And don't forget Schematic Heaven, Blue Guitar, free information society etc.
Gallien-Krueger 250ML: The way how these amps combine an IC dual FET and an opamp in order to create a soft clipping gain stage is ingenious. Some other G-K amps use another embodiment of the FETs + OpAmp idea. What's best, they utilize the soft clipping gain stages practically throughout the whole preamp, not just in a single overdrive stage. Old G-K amps have plenty of unconventional circuits, like the soft clipping power amplifier of 212SC and 300GT amps. Trace Elliot had few soft clipping power amp circuits as well but they were realized in a different manner.
Ampeg SS and VH series: Amps with an extremely brutal distortion and very nice clean tone. The distortion circuit topology of these amps is the same as the "FlexWave" of (at least older) Crate amplifiers (both were actually designed by the same company) and while there's technically nothing unconventional or unordinary in these amps they are a great example of what one can do with a very basic design that is "voiced" with an utmost care.
Randall amplifiers. Same thing as Ampeg but the distortion circuit is primarily based on JFETs.
ADA's: These amps were way ahead of their time and receive far less regognition than they ought to. They are packed with features and stuff that at least once was quite unconventional in comparison to most other guitar amps, both SS and tube. Also check out rest of the ADA stuff like the "Ampulator", MP-series and the hybrid power amps. For example, claiming that MP-1 is a "tube pre" is an understatement of the worst kind.
Lab Series: Check out the Channel #2 tone control circuit as well as the comb filter. Not your ordinary stuff. I also like the way these amps limit the preamp signal with a "fixed" distortion circuit in order to prevent power amp overdrive. Vintage Thomas Organ Vox amps did basically the same thing but with a different kind of circuit.
Roland Blues Cube: the "TubeLogic" emulation concept is pretty nice application of FETs and the "RectiFex" circuit (that simulates tube amp sag) is an extremely simple idea, yet effective. Blues and rock amps are not my thing but the used circuit topologies could lend themselves to very interesting applications.
Vox Valve Reactor (Valvetronix, ToneLab etc.): So far the most ingenious hybrid circuits I've seen. IMO, the tubes actually seem a bit redundant but I've been playing around with the "virtual transformer" and "reflected impedance" ideas and these have a vast potential. Directing signal shaping of the power amp to lower current stages preceding the actual PA, is something I'm quite sure we will see more and more in the future. Another example of a very similar circuit is the T-Dynamics power amp of Peavey TransTube amps.
Acoustic Control Amps: Circuitry and tone-wise these are getting pretty old-fashioned but if you are looking for examples of discrete transistor design then these are definitely worth studying. There are plenty of neat tricks that can be learned from the power amplifier circuits of these things.
Finally... Trace Elliot "Reactor" power amp circuit (used in Studio and Road series) and GMT 200x amps: High-power amps that have output transformers and moderately softly clipping power amp. You don't see this often.
---
That's some stuff from some of those amps that I can think of from the top of my head. Anyway, I'm not so sure how "vintage" some of the mentioned things are but why limit yourself to using only old technology anyway? Yeah, and some of those almost 20 - 30-year old amps still look extremely modern in comparison to some new but cheap amps that some companies push to the markets. 8|
that's a lot of information thanks very much. I researched some of them and they are great for my project ::)
BTW I don't have knowledge about audio circuits. My projects is just to choose a schematic and prepare a pcb for it. I'm not going to modify anything or build an amp from scratch. But you my friend, have a lot of knowledge on the issue and I really think you should start a community project like ax84 or 18watt.com. sorry if that has been talked before...
thanks again :)
Okay, I researched all of these + what I have found extra and concluded 5 finalists *purely* based on the comments of people that own these amps. Sound is the most important thing after all.
However before starting this project I need clarify my vision about his project but my knowledge is simply not enough for that. Here is what I think about the final amp that I should build.
* Schematic shouldn't be much complicated so that I can design a PCB for it (I'm very good at using eda software but unfortunately I don't understand about designing audio pcbs. any resource on that?)
* Over all the project should be cheap. Press the PCB, populate the board and thats it, nothing that will cost too much...
* The most important thing for me: Parts should be obtained easily. For example in my country (Turkey) there is absolutely no way of accessing tubes, tube sockets, output transformers etc... (that's also why I'm not building an AX84 :)) Transistors, ICs and other stuff is O.K.
* The sound of the amp: Although I'm not waiting any thing magical about this it would be great if it had its own trademark sound, something tubey maybe... Also in this project amp the clean channel is more important than the O/D channel because I think obtaining the drive sound with a pedal (tube screamer etc.)
* So far all the mainstream SS amps I've tried sucks at accepting pedals in the signal path. This project amp should get along nice with overdrive and distortion pedals etc...
These are some main lines I came up with. So according to these and schematics that I added here (http://www.ssguitar.com/index.php?topic=886.0), which one you think I should build. Maybe none of them?
- Fender - Harvard Reverb II (Paul Rivera Design)(&)
- Gallien Krueger - 250 ML(+)
- Lab Series - L5(+)
- Rickenbacker - TR75(&)
- Trace Elliot - Super Tramp(&)
(+) Schematics look scary, not easy to create a PCB I think?
(&) These look pretty simple (especially Rickenbacker TR75) but they all have a reverb tank and as I said earlier it wouldn't be easy to build it in my country. Also I'm thinking using pedals for all kinds of effects - reverb too. So is it possible to remove reverb parts form the schematics. Can someone help me about that?
Thanks very much.
Quote...you should start a community project...
Naah, I'm not interested on doing something like that at the moment. There are various reasons why this is so - one of the biggest ones is the lack of my spare time that limits the amount of how much I can work with electronics stuff nowadays. Many people have day jobs you know, and designing, building, documenting and "tech-supporting" an amp project that would start from the scratch is something that will take a lot of time. Time, which I rather use in other ways as the amp design I would likely release would be quite complex and the number of people interested on such projects is very marginal. It just wouldn't make sense. The effort I put on the amp book has been quite big already and I was kind of hoping that it would teach and inspire people to design amps of their own. Ones that truly suit their individual tastes and needs.
Want an easy and simple guitar amp project? There already are plenty of projects like that, and if you haven't seen them then you haven't searched hard enough. Also, there definitely isn't shortage on amp schematics, even SS ones so why is that any different than some schematic published at ax84 site? As a final note, there was some discussion about creating a ssguitar.com forum project amp few years ago but it never got past the planning stage. Likely due to very similar reasons. If you take the initiative and start one out, who knows, maybe there are plenty of people who are anxious to jump in to that project and help out finishing it.
LOL -not much I can add to that , but I would add the Peavey Musician 400 Series B ( about the best tone stack I have ever seen (very complicated but vary good)).
Quote from: cb951303 on September 10, 2008, 01:42:28 PM
Hello everyone, I'm doing some research about vintage ss guitar amps. Eventually I'm going to pick one and use that as a base to my amp project. However there are many very nice sounding vintage ss amps out there. I need you to add to the this list the vintage ss amps that you had experience or that you heard good things about. Here's what I found so far. I heard nothing but good things about these amps
Trace Elliot Super Tramp
Gallien Kruger 250
Vox Venue
Fender Studio Lead
Fender Harvard Reverb II
Fender Showman
Rickenbacker TR-75
The best ever solid state amp is the Blue Tone PRO 30M.
have a listen to it on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgGA6qx2NzQ
yeah I know about that but did you know it's also the most complicated guitar amp I've ever seen ;D I think they use some sort of direct tube replacement circuits. Interesting stuff
Quote from: cb951303 on September 14, 2008, 06:44:08 PM
yeah I know about that but did you know it's also the most complicated guitar amp I've ever seen ;D I think they use some sort of direct tube replacement circuits. Interesting stuff
Complicated? It's the most simple amp you could wish to have! You mean the guts of the amp? Don't think so, it's FETs based circuitry taking the place of valves, yes, but the tone is fantastic!
Quoteit's FETs based circuitry taking the place of valves
And that's supposed to tell something? It's pretty much like saying "transistor-based circuit taking place of valves". You got me interested, though. Anyone have schemas?
what I meant was this: http://members.aol.com/bluetoneamps/gallery/7.htm
they call it vvt simulator. as you can see it's a secret :D
I don't think that anyone has the scheme, but I agree that it's the best sounding SS amp I've ever heard.
But it's nothing related to this thread since I'm looking for a project amp.
Quote from: teemuk on September 15, 2008, 08:08:56 AM
Quoteit's FETs based circuitry taking the place of valves
And that's supposed to tell something? It's pretty much like saying "transistor-based circuit taking place of valves". You got me interested, though. Anyone have schemas?
Well, sorry, no! Speaking as the guy who used to market and sell the amp at Blue Tone, I can't divulge any secrets! I've no idea how the thing worked, as I didn't design it.
Sorry!
What about Gibson SS amps? I've tried the G20, with an awesome Ultrasonic 10" speaker I shoked! It waves so much air your pants move! Also I tried with a TS, and sounded excellent. I can't imagine how G30 12" could sound...
I never see mention of the Gibson Les Paul SS amplifier from the very late '60s/early 70's . Probably for good reason too. I played through one in a music store in Hamilton, Ontario and this was probably around 1970 or so. It was a head/cabinet affair and fairly big . I think the power amp was in the speaker cabinet. I recall it being very sterile or metallic sounding. Never saw another one again and I've never heard it mentioned.
In Canada we also had GBX SS amps during the 1970's. I don't think there were any combo amps, just head/cabinet sets. I remember thinking they were awesome looking at the time. They appear on eBay every once in a while.
Another SS amp I'll never forget from the 70's is a Yamaha amp that was like a 4 foot tall pyramid. Sort of like a piece of pie standing upright.
So there's some additional vintage SS amp history for you.
interesting discussion about Bluetone amps from diystompboxes a couple years back:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=25368.0
I love the Peavey Bandit! I've had the idea of remounting an 80s one in a head cabinet for a bandit half stack on the back burner for a while now.
Eeeeer... I'm looking for Tube Works 7200 Mos Valve schematic... 100W bass amp... sounded great! But FET-Tube switch wasn't working, I think
Quote from: elberto on January 20, 2009, 03:10:11 PM
interesting discussion about Bluetone amps from diystompboxes a couple years back:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=25368.0
I love the Peavey Bandit! I've had the idea of remounting an 80s one in a head cabinet for a bandit half stack on the back burner for a while now.
I have one of those bandit 112's those a killer little amps plenty of volume , yes that would be a great project and hey if you build a matching 4X12 cab loaded with scopions you"ll have a rockin little half stack brother.
Rock On
Personally, I like the Tube Works / Mosvalve line....
I use two of their amps as primary gear, depending on where I'm playing....
The MV-962 Stereo amp, can be used Mono, pure power amp, no pre.....turn it up, gets loud, but stays 'clean'.....
The other item I use is the RT-2100 2x12, which also came in a 1x12... this is a 2 channel, one dirty, one clean, ybrid, having one 12ax7 tube in the preamp.... this also has an effects loop.....
At my age, and in the never-ending (ended for me tho :) search for tone, I stumbled on these amps about 15 years ago. I swear by em...
Check the reviews on the MV-962 at Harmony Central...
Oh Brother the quest for tone never ends :lmao:
Rock On
I'll get a lot of flack for this in some circles, but some of the best SS amps ever made were the Thomas Organ Vox amps. The "big head" set, Viscount, Buckingham, Royal Guardsman and Beatle amps shared the same internal circuits, and had a lot of advanced features for the time, as well as a really decent sound. I view them as midway between what the world thinks of SS amps in general and highly regarded tube amps; better, certainly, than some tube amps.
But I'm a Vox nut.
I recently finished PCB layouts for the Vox line. These replacements are the same circuit, but cut up into bite sized pieces to minimize the internal wiring. For instance: for the brilliant channel, the PCB is about 1.5" by 3.5", and is designed to mount on the back of the volume, bass, and treble controls with adhesive standoffs. All the wires to the three pots, the two jacks, and the switch are local, about 2-3" long and right off the PCB. The only wires outside the "local group" are the power, ground, output signal and remote switch line for the MRB. Ditto the normal and bass channels. The other PCBs to finish this out are the tremolo PCB, Reverb PCB, and mixer/limiter. All are designed to be physically placed right on top of where all their controls are to minimize wire lengths, the bane of the TV amps. I also redid the power amp board, fits the same position as the original, but is a fresh layout and puts the driver transistor on a heat sink on the PCB.
I mention this because someone needs to make a test set of boards to verify them...
I understand that you have drawn them, but not physically made them yet?
Will you upgrade an already existing one or build a new one from scratch?
Either way, congratulations and good luck.
Quote from: R.G. on June 03, 2010, 09:32:44 PM
I recently finished PCB layouts for the Vox line...
Interesting. As I'm also in the process of designing a "modular" amplifier that spreads many of its functions to different PC boards I really started to worry how well such a scattered setup will actually work because there will be ample amount of common wiring passing from one PC board to another. Since Mr. Murphy will surely have his fingers in the outcome I'm quite worried that the whole thing could end up being pestered by some very nasty ground loops.
I'm quite an enthusiastic to know how well your setup works...
Quote from: J M Fahey on June 04, 2010, 05:26:28 AM
I understand that you have drawn them, but not physically made them yet?
That's correct. I did them from a schematic capture in a PCB design suite, so if I drew the schematic correctly, the PCBs are electrically correct. Frankly, physically making them is the most time consuming but least technically challenging part of the process. I probably average a PCB a week, and most of those go into volume production one way or another. Not having physically made them is the smallest portion of the worries about whether they'll work or not; although I would snicker at that statement coming from a beginner, too. ;D
QuoteWill you upgrade an already existing one or build a new one from scratch?
Well, the whole point of the exercise is to replace the old existing ones. They were good enough for their time, but are a disaster by today's standards. Upgrading existing ones is an exercise in frustration because of the huge amount of point to point wiring inside the old Thomas Vox amps.
Quote from: teemuk on June 04, 2010, 07:00:38 AM
Interesting. As I'm also in the process of designing a "modular" amplifier that spreads many of its functions to different PC boards I really started to worry how well such a scattered setup will actually work because there will be ample amount of common wiring passing from one PC board to another. Since Mr. Murphy will surely have his fingers in the outcome I'm quite worried that the whole thing could end up being pestered by some very nasty ground loops.
It does take some clear thinking about what signal is on what wire. As a practical matter, I have a fair amount of experience with this kind of thing. The partitioning of the amp onto local functionally oriented boards is almost custom made for star grounding - and star power distribution as well. Both of these are some prescriptive measures for eliminating ground and power loops. And with the vast majority of wires being short ones, the chances of success are much improved. The nice thing about isolating the signal routing to a few places, perhaps one or two from each board, is that you can use shielded wire and have it mean something.
But no, you can't wire it in a random way and have it come out well.
What may not have been obvious in what I said here is that I'd like for someone with some prototyping skills to try these layouts out. As a practical matter, it could be some months before I get to it. What's involved is making the PCBs from either toner transfer or photo positive processes, then populating and testing them. Any interested parties?
Do you have GERBER files for these boards? I might be interested in building and testing your boards or you - do you have all the components or a usable BOM?
Hi CB95.
Since you have no experience , you could consider the Randall RG preamp which uses Fets, is reasonably simple and very good, coupled to any power amp you can get easily in Turkey.
Mensur made a killer one, search for the posts and listen to his MP3s.
I visited Istambul 20 years ago, and in music shops everywhere they had those small amplifiers, with two oval 6x9" car radio speakers.
What's the situation now?
I'd love to be today sipping some Tea, Coffee or refreshing Ayran on a Ferry Boat along the Bosphorus or visiting the Grand Bazaar or Topkapi Palace.
Quote from: gbono on June 07, 2010, 03:54:13 PM
Do you have GERBER files for these boards? I might be interested in building and testing your boards or you - do you have all the components or a usable BOM?
Yes, I have - well, OK, can generate instantly - gerber and BOMs. Release of Gerber would require nondisclosure and non-compete agreements enforceable in the jurisdiction where you live, though. I've enabled entirely too many commercial enterprises already to do more of them.
Okay, you have the GERBER files, what about the components? Are you asking someone to purchase materials? No problem with an NDA or whatever. IMHO patents are a waste of resources unless you have the $$ to defend them. http://www.tinaja.com/glib/when2pat.pdf
I worked for a company that had the laywers and $$ to get what ever they wanted and unless you were able to spend serious money to defend yourself in court you lost and they won - they won a lot.
Quote from: gbono on June 10, 2010, 02:39:01 PM
Okay, you have the GERBER files, what about the components? Are you asking someone to purchase materials? No problem with an NDA or whatever. IMHO patents are a waste of resources unless you have the $$ to defend them.
Oh, I didn't want someone to build a set for me. I was hoping that someone needed a set for themselves and would be interested in building them, and perhaps debugging if needed with my assistance to get them working. I just want to know they work, and don't have the time at the moment to make them.
There is nothing patentable in this setup, given that the base circuits were released publicly over 40 years ago, and patents run 20 years, if they were even patentable then. And yes, as a general rule, you do not really own *anything* you can't defend.
QuoteI worked for a company that had the laywers and $$ to get what ever they wanted and unless you were able to spend serious money to defend yourself in court you lost and they won - they won a lot.
I was in a similar situation. I just don't want to enable yet another startup company wanting to sell my work. That's happened too many times already.
Where do you live?
Okay - I thought you needed someone to build the design out and test it for you. I'm located in Petaluma CA - 45 min north of San Francisco. You might know it as the "wine country" if that's your thing. ;) Mesa Boogie and Magic Parts are about 2 miles from my house.
xP oh kay, cut tha chatter m'boy ... stop babbling all dat nonsense aboyt mezzah buggah and moisyk partz .... shast tell me whare all that wine is !!!! berp !!!!! xP xP
:lmao: :lmao:
Hey JM I bet there's plenty of good wine in your backyard ;)
Bonarda = charbono in Cali
Though I'd rather visit your speaker shop.
Hi GBono.
Truth is I can buy all the excellent wine I want for peanuts, in any supermarket.
Unfortunately, relentless cultural pressure from the USA (including The Simpsons) has turned, along the last 40 years, the wine drinking Argentine into a ***Beer*** :duh drinker.
The only good side of that coin, is that wine is cheaper than ever, and competition has smashed the bad ones and forced the best to improve.
Quoteyour speaker shop.
Ha Ha !!! You mean the kitchen table where I mount them?
All mechanical work is subcontracted now, I sold my lathe 2 years ago, tired of having my hands greasy and badly cut by metal shavings, specially considering that SAE 1010 steel (the worst mechanically, the best magnetically) *loves* to produce long sharp curls of iron, which never split on their own, even with a special tool.
Given today's receding economy, car parts makers are happy to press, punch and point-solder speaker parts for me, for less than my own cost.
The same goes for galvanizing.
All along my life, *every* machine, gadget or tool I ever bought, paid for itself quickly, but on galvanizing, I gave up.
It *did* work, but every liquid used carried cyanide or heavy metals salts, and I saw lung X-Rays from that industry's workers: NO NO .
Besides, considering I pay around U$30 to galvanize/blue zinc plate a lot of 50 12" frames .... there's not much point to it.
Anyway, if you ever visit Argentina, you are most welcome.
Although the other way trip is *quite* possible, considering my Brother lives in Malibu and my Li'l Sis in Orange County.