anyone else using these?

[althalusg]

I recently stumbled on an old 1977 Yamaha g100-115 amp... I picked it up on the basis of my limited $$ but it turned out to be a great find for my first amp ever.... yeah i'm a totally green player... just started 5 months ago

just wondering if anyone had an opinion on what I think is a pretty great amp so far...

useless fact... my only guitar so far is a yamaha rgx-121z   

[Enzo]

I think the old Yamaha amps are perfectly fine.  Well, made, not difficult to service.  Sound OK to me.


The thing about an amp is it needs to please YOU, not me.  SO if you like the amp, then it is a good amp.

[Littlewyan]

Spot on Enzo. I don't believe in saying an amp is good or bad, it all depends on the person's taste.

[Roly]

it needs to please YOU, not me.

:lmao:  :dbtu:

At 100 watts it has quite a lot of stoke (particularly for a beginner) but these have a good rep in the clean/jazz area.  Perhaps not a guitarists tonmeister, but first you learn to play before getting too deeply into the distractions of pedals and amp tone.

I have a bit of Yammy gear myself, my No.1 keyboard being a DX-7, have used and serviced quite a bit over the years, and have a generally high opinion of Yamaha stuff.

[Enzo]

In my decades in this business I have always maintained that if a piece of Yamaha gear has the features you want and the performance level you want, you will not go wrong buying it.

[gbono]

I had a G50-210 that came with a non-functioning bass control - the solder joints were fine but the center wiper on the pot had sheared off. Difficult to see. Simple fix.

This amp had a fantastic tone and IMO it could stand up to a Fender Deluxe reverb or Super reverb - really versatile. Good tremolo and reverb though I could only make the pre-set volume feature work with a footswitch. Never did find a schematic for the G50 that looked correct - there was a G50-410 service manual that looked right but I didn't want to purchase it

[ChewyNasalPrize]

I think they are GREAT! Mine pleases me to no end. 

Regardless how the tones it can generate appeal to you personally, they are superior quality design and build. Top notch construction and components.

From what I understand, they were designed to compete directly with the Fender Twin which was considered the amp to beat at that time. So if you like the sound of a great Fender amp, you will probably like the sound of this great Yamaha amp. It is very versatile and has no tubes to replace like the Twin.

I believe that the "golden era" of solid state amps was from the late 70's to early 80's. From that point forward, with a few specialized exceptions, the solid state amp industry went down hill from there, tone wise. Could have something to do with analog circuits vs digital circuits- or maybe there's just more money in building tube amps. Think of all the amp techs and tube manufacturers that would be put out of work if suddenly everybody decided solid state amps were better. Solid state amps are more difficult to service too should something ever go wrong. Ever studied the schematics for a Lab Series amp? Mind-boggling.

Solid state amps CAN sound GREAT and in many cases, better than their tube counterparts but to do this cost a lot of money and therefore the cost of these great-sounding solid state amps became prohibitive. The best solid state amps from this era were very expensive, maybe as much or more than the Fender Twin they were trying to beat. If they weren't going to sound a lot better than a tube amp, why pay so much? My guess is that the price was supported by hype and expectation of the technology, which, while great, didn't prove to be quite the boon in value vs tone that the marketers had propagated. However, what that means for us who know the score is that many of the very excellent, high-quality, great-sounding old amps from the golden era that used to cost a small fortune can now be had for relative peanuts! Try to find a good condition Twin from this era for under a couple hundred! Won't happen unless you are incredibly lucky! But you can buy these great old solid state amps all day long for next to nothing. I got my G100 head for $100 and it is in great shape!  :dbtu:

The solid state Gibson Lab Series and Randall RG series (the "red stripes") are also some of the best solid state amps from around that time (Randall used to work for Fender before he split off and started his own company). Got my eye on a Randall Commander right now.

Rolland's JC-120 is great and so is some of the old stuff made by Sunn (the Beta Lead esp- but rare).

I've also always thought Peavey made some great sounding solid state amps too- from the 70's and all the way up to today.

[Enzo]

Hi Chewy.  I am going to disagree with you a little.   yes there were some great solid state amps in the 70s and 80s, but there are some today as well.  For that matter there were plenty of crappy ones then and now as well.

It is only very recent that digital amps are becoming common.   Digital effects have been around a long time, but whole digital amps are pretty new still.  I find them gimmicky myself, kinda like those all in one DOD/Digitech FX pedals.

Is there more money in tube amps?  No.  There is a market for them, so they keep making them.  Hell, I prefer them, but the solid state amps far outsell the tube amps and have for years.  When a commercial amp comes along that acts and sounds just like a tube amp, people who like tube amps will start buying them.  As it sits, there are nice sounding SS amps that emulate tube amps FAIRLY well, but side by side they just don;t quite get there.   Nothing at all against solid state.   You can't make a tube amp sound and act just like a SS amp either.   You can't make an apple taste like an orange.

There are only a very few companies making tubes, and they are a very specialized niche market.  In terms of electronics parts overall, tubes are a microscopic portion and the industry wouldn't miss them.  WE might, but the parts market wouldn;t.

As to solid state being harder to service, well, that simply isn't true.   If all you ever do is work on tube amps, then sure, you know nothing of other technologies, but then you wouldn;t know anything about making wood furniture or baking cakes either, and I for one never had trouble baking.  Troubleshooting is troubleshooting, the technology - tube or SS - is just a detail.

There are tube snob techs, and if they can make a living only working on tube amps, more power to them.  But the majority of us amp techs work on all types

Sure I have seen and serviced Lab series amps.  If you don;t know what you are looking at, I am sure it is daunting.   Now get someone not used to tube circuits to look over a Peavey 5150 schematic.   That will look pretty confusing too.

You want to see one of the worlds most popular amps?  Look at the Peavey Bandit.   They have been making and evolving the Bandit for decades now.  They are certainly not as expensive as comparable tube amps, and not prohibitive at all.

[ChewyNasalPrize]

Hi Chewy.  I am going to disagree with you a little.   yes there were some great solid state amps in the 70s and 80s, but there are some today as well.  For that matter there were plenty of crappy ones then and now as well.

It is only very recent that digital amps are becoming common.   Digital effects have been around a long time, but whole digital amps are pretty new still.  I find them gimmicky myself, kinda like those all in one DOD/Digitech FX pedals.

Is there more money in tube amps?  No.  There is a market for them, so they keep making them.  Hell, I prefer them, but the solid state amps far outsell the tube amps and have for years.  When a commercial amp comes along that acts and sounds just like a tube amp, people who like tube amps will start buying them.  As it sits, there are nice sounding SS amps that emulate tube amps FAIRLY well, but side by side they just don;t quite get there.   Nothing at all against solid state.   You can't make a tube amp sound and act just like a SS amp either.   You can't make an apple taste like an orange.

There are only a very few companies making tubes, and they are a very specialized niche market.  In terms of electronics parts overall, tubes are a microscopic portion and the industry wouldn't miss them.  WE might, but the parts market wouldn;t.

As to solid state being harder to service, well, that simply isn't true.   If all you ever do is work on tube amps, then sure, you know nothing of other technologies, but then you wouldn;t know anything about making wood furniture or baking cakes either, and I for one never had trouble baking.  Troubleshooting is troubleshooting, the technology - tube or SS - is just a detail.

There are tube snob techs, and if they can make a living only working on tube amps, more power to them.  But the majority of us amp techs work on all types

Sure I have seen and serviced Lab series amps.  If you don;t know what you are looking at, I am sure it is daunting.   Now get someone not used to tube circuits to look over a Peavey 5150 schematic.   That will look pretty confusing too.

You want to see one of the worlds most popular amps?  Look at the Peavey Bandit.   They have been making and evolving the Bandit for decades now.  They are certainly not as expensive as comparable tube amps, and not prohibitive at all.

Points taken Enzo! I agree with a lot of your comments.

I guess what I meant by solid state amps being "harder to service" is that with the high-end solid state amps like the Lab Series that were directly challenging the Fender Twin at that time, there just weren't as many techs familiar with them or qualified to service or repair the new technology they employed- while tube amps and "simpler" solid state amps had been around for a long time and service and repair was easier because there were already lots of folks around that could do it. I just posed this as one of several possible reasons for why the high-end solid state amps of this era suddenly stopped being produced much less evolved.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't think we are seeing it exactly the same way. Though I am pretty sure that if there was nothing but solid state amps out there, there would be way fewer amp techs and repair shops because there simply wouldn't be as much demand for regular and repeat amp service due to the nature of tube amps. Profit margin per unit in actual dollars (maybe not percentages) will be higher out the door because they are more expensive and command a "boutique-ish" premium because they are tube amps and the ongoing service keeps the repeat cash and customers flowing in. So- I still say there is more money in tube amps. Sure, tons of solid state amps get sold every year (like the Bandit) but that is because they are cheaper to produce and cheaper to purchase and target a larger market that is less concerned with great tone than it is with getting something affordable and "good enough". Has less to do with their tone quality than price and availability. But I'm talking about high-end TONE! 

Yes- the world's most popular amp, The Bandit, is solid state and indeed a fine amp but it is popular for the same reasons a Toyota Corola is popular. Good quality, dependable, gets the job done, easy to fix and it sounds better than most other amps in it's price range and it is very affordable because Peavey is so huge and their scales of economy make them very inexpensive to produce per unit so when selling them at low prices they can still make a buck. When I said "prohibitive" regarding the cost of solid state amps, I was referring to high-end solid state amps of the late 70's through early 80's that were directly challenging the high-end tube amp market at that time. Plenty of fine, low-price solid state amps out there today- I don't disagree. But they are all Corolas- nothing wrong with a Corola if that's what you like and what gets the job done- but I was talking about the high-end, highest-quality solid state amps that seemed to hit a plateau in quality and price sometime in the early to mid 80s. And I was fathoming the reasons why they didn't continue to get better, produce more and therefore become more affordable. Now solid state amps have humbly accepted their place below tube amps in perception (justified or not) of quality tone. The best solid states are sold as "the best tone you can get without it being a tube amp!"

Also, I have a mid 90's Peavey Express which is very similar to the Bandit and I think it sounds GREAT! I think Peavey is one of the few manufacturers who have managed to continue to make VERY good solid state amps at reasonable prices for a long time. I also have a mid 90s solid state Trace Elliot Super Tramp that sounds equally as good. But these are exceptions in my opinion.

And for the record, sure I like tube amps too. I have a two inexpensive ones and I love them! But for my money, the value in these older solid state amps for the quality of tone that you can get from them is unbeatable. Don't get me wrong though- if someone were to offer me for free either a late 70's Fender Twin Reverb in mint condition with free tubes and service for life OR a mint late 70's Yamaha G100 II or Lab Series L5 - Of course I'd take the Twin! But since they aren't free and the money is coming out of my pocket and I firmly believe in the law of diminishing returns, I personally can't justify paying (how much? $1000-ish) for a late 70's Twin over a couple hundred for the G100 or L5. There just isn't $800 (plus ongoing tubes and service) worth of extra tone in the Twin for me. Though after I win the lottery, and money becomes no object, there might be.  :dbtu:

Knowing me though, I'd sell the twin and buy three or four great old solid states! 

[Enzo]

Fair enough.   The thing about repair work is that most of it doesn't care about the technology.   Most common repairs are broken jacks and broken or worn out controls.   A shorted rectifier is a shorted rectifier, regardless of what that thing is powering.  Leaky caps.    Sure, if your amp has an open plate resistor in the phase inverter, you need to have an idea how to find it, just as a bad op amp has to be found.  But most repairs are just dumb stuff.     I could hire a junior tech, and he would probably be able to handle 3/4 of the repairs that come in.

[phatt]

Fair enough.   The thing about repair work is that most of it doesn't care about the technology.   Most common repairs are broken jacks and broken or worn out controls.   A shorted rectifier is a shorted rectifier, regardless of what that thing is powering.  Leaky caps.    Sure, if your amp has an open plate resistor in the phase inverter, you need to have an idea how to find it, just as a bad op amp has to be found.  But most repairs are just dumb stuff.     I could hire a junior tech, and he would probably be able to handle 3/4 of the repairs that come in.

Dumb stuff   Yahy !! There is hope for Me then! :lmao:

I totally agree,, 9 out of 10 things I fix are broken or intermittent connections either on board breaks or just those crap sockets. Valve or SS often makes little diff as a lot of gear now breaks down because of inferior components.
Older gear tends to have better quality parts and even a novice like me can see a lot of R&D went into some of the older gear,,, sadly the new stuff is just thrown together by robots.
Even big names can produce plain dumb designs.
Just recently fixed the really bad hum in a mates redneF Pro Junior.
I guess the cad program made it look really sexy on the screen but the Cad prg does not know that you don't lay the most sensitive trace going to the grid parallel to the high voltage supply trace.  :crazy2: All fixed now with a bit of point to point rework with some shielded cable and it's now almost silent until full tilt.   8|
Phil.

[Roly]

The thing about repair work is that most of it doesn't care about the technology.

:dbtu:

[J M Fahey]

There used to be, some 20 years ago, a famous Tech in Buenos Aires, , known as "el Digital".
Famous because he repaired difficult/expensive/complex stuff nobody else would touch with a 10 ft pole.
This was before Internet was a widely used resource, so no googling schematics, user manuals, or even shop ads.

He had rented a small office, in the front room he received and delivered stuff and on the back room was the "mystery Lab", where no living soul was allowed.

One day, after (quite) a few beers, he said "hey Juan, you are not a normal Tech (I guess it was a compliment ) , I'll let you inside the Lab"

I expected to be *amazed* at the high Tech, NASA approved equipment .

Amazed I was, but for the lack of it ..........

All he had was a (needle) multimeter, soldering iron, solder puller, a few screwdrivers , etc.

¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿??

He said:
- I open the stuff and take a long hard look at it.
Good light and magnifier.
Pull and reinsert all connectors.
If necessary blow compressed air inside them.
Pull plug-in PCBs (then stillin wide use in Pro equipment), wipe the edge connectors, wipe and blow the female ones, reinsert.
Then retension jack/XLR contacts if applicable, clean pots and switches.

Then check whether there's +/-15V rails, +5V, +48B , as needed.

Only actual "electronics" repair I do is replacing some blown regulator or diode or bad filter cap. Period.

- And what about "real" repairs?

- "My girlfriend is an Airline Hostess (by the way, she was *beautiful*), she carries the bad boards to USA for exchange or repair at the Factory, (most good stuff was still USA/UK made), bring it back, charge 2X the cost."

Musicians/Studio owners hated him ... but had to come back week after week, he was the only reliable and consistent service shop for top quality equipment.

[ChewyNasalPrize]

it needs to please YOU, not me.

:lmao:  :dbtu:

At 100 watts it has quite a lot of stoke (particularly for a beginner) but these have a good rep in the clean/jazz area.  Perhaps not a guitarists tonmeister, but first you learn to play before getting too deeply into the distractions of pedals and amp tone.

I have a bit of Yammy gear myself, my No.1 keyboard being a DX-7, have used and serviced quite a bit over the years, and have a generally high opinion of Yamaha stuff.

I understand the 100-watt rating is the rms rating and not peak. Read somewhere the actual peak wattage is either 200 or 300!!! I think this is one reason why it can stay clean for so long up the dial?

It's also a great platform for pedals. 

[phatt]

There used to be, some 20 years ago, a famous Tech in Buenos Aires, , known as "el Digital".
Famous because he repaired difficult/expensive/complex stuff nobody else would touch with a 10 ft pole.
This was before Internet was a widely used resource, so no googling schematics, user manuals, or even shop ads.

Then check whether there's +/-15V rails, +5V, +48B , as needed.

Only actual "electronics" repair I do is replacing some blown regulator or diode or bad filter cap. Period.

- And what about "real" repairs?

- "My girlfriend is an Airline Hostess (by the way, she was *beautiful*), she carries the bad boards to USA for exchange or repair at the Factory, (most good stuff was still USA/UK made), bring it back, charge 2X the cost."

Musicians/Studio owners hated him ... but had to come back week after week, he was the only reliable and consistent service shop for top quality equipment.

So all I have do now is find myself a beautiful Air Hostess?  :lmao:

Though that might be a bit tricky to explain to the Wife.  :grr :grr
opps!

I have been lucky as I know my local garbage truck driver and he keeps me supplied in computers and electronic junk of all variations.

I recently scored an Asus 22 inch LCD monitor from Him and upon careful inspection one tiny pin on one of the internal headers that connects the screen was bent and was causing the intermittent purple screen. The smallest bump or movement would cause the fault, tap it and it returned to normal,,, sometimes.
This must have driven the owner nuts and judging by the impact on the corner it was likely thrown with some force in frustration. :grr

As the factory seal was unbroken then this obviously left the factory with this fault.

Of course most stuff that arrives is dead and not worth fixing,,, so it gets stripped down for parts. <3)
A lot of my parts in the stuff I build comes from trashed electronics.

Phil.