new here (so many questions) comes from tube snob lifestyle

[hithere]

Hey guys I would like to start by saying I have just found this forum from googling does anyone prefer solid state amps. My mind began to race about some people accepting solid state not having to be tubelike and that maybe I was one of those people.

I like a lot of sounds and I own a Fender Twin Reverb, and let me say that my marshall mg100 (which I recently sold/basically figuring solid state=not pro) and Transtube's clean does not pale in comparison at all. Granted they are different sounds, but I do not feel the twin is just the best because it is tube.

I know solid state clean is more accepted than the drive though and that brings me here. I was going to buy a Marshall tube head to replace my old combo that I grew used to growing up, and what a party that would be hauling all that around. After reading parts of the solid state book here I believe I read that basically, solid state is not inferior and can be very good compared with tube. Since I use a twin all my drive is obviously solid state (pedals), but I think I preferred my Marshall to all the boutiques I put through my twin.

I also like a micro cube and have played the bigger version over another's house and definately think there was good tone to be had.

Generally I guess all my favorite guitar tones have been recorded with tube amps, but am finding it may not be the best for me. Anyone know of any non-tube pros besides dimebag? maybe something that would be usually a tube amp deal like blues/petty stuff.

I even saw a band use two Line 6 spiders which are extremely hated everywhere, and they had a pretty cool sound.

I am pretty excited about the New Vox Diamond amp and am thinking that maybe I should try some solid state amps.

My main question really is if solid state can hang with tube why does everyone simply believe tube is better (history/propaganda?) Any other forum besides this would probably bash anything SS but I can see this forum doesn't have as much action as the never ending boutique/tube forums. So I know the believers in SS/and Hybrid is less. I basically came here to see if someone could enlighten me with some info.

[Jack1962]

What's Up

         I use both myself tube and SS , however , it all depends on what you like , forget what Joe Blow tells ya , if you like the tone of your amp (or any amp for that matter) then go with it. BB King's main amp is a Lab Series L5 , which entirely SS, while SRV used a Fender Deluxe which was tube. The choice is up to you. The tube amp is a louder amp and has more warmth(most , not all amps are created equally) , what I mean is a 50 watt marshall is as loud or louder than some 100 watt SS amps. This is because the volume of an amp is not determined by the wattage  , there are several factors involved. I will start from the speaker and work backwards, the speakers in a tube amp are connected to a transformer in a tube amp ( this is to isolate the high dc voltage) it is not in a SS amp, this is one of the main factors. the second is (and this brings use back to the high voltage) the typical tube amp uses a suppy voltage of 350 to 550 volts dc , the typical SS amp uses a voltage of around 45 volts to 100 depending on maufacturer, this gives the tube amp a larger voltage swing (even though the SS uses - and + 45 to 100 volts). However it goes on and on , the SS if it is a quality amp are great amps just as the tube amps are , it is a personal choice.

                                     Rock On

[teemuk]

Zappa often recorded with Pignose 7-100 and Brian May with his famous "Deacy". Beach Boys used a Baldwin Professional, Tom Petty a Vox Super Beatle, Beatles used various of the Vox's SS amps, Santana played a GMT 260A prototype at Woodstock and on his debut album, the Doors used Acoustic Control Corporation's amps and John Fogerty used a Kustom K200. Some of the Iron Maiden's albums were recorded with Gallien Krueger's 250ML amp or 2000CPL preamp. Big part of Metallica's clean tones is the chorus tone of JC-120. Many death metal guys (e.g. Dying Fetus) like the Ampeg's SS or VH series (140 or 150) or the newer Crate's revisions of these amps.

Is that "pro" enough?

I guess I could go on an on with this kind of list. It simply doesn't matter what you use (SS or tube) if it gives you the tone you want. The legend goes that Chuck Berry just toured with his guitar and his rider only specified that he needs an amp, any amp the venue would have.

Tube amps can be louder than SS amps (with equal ouput power) - or they can be as loud - or even quieter. It's all about how efficient speakers the amps have and how the amps transition into clipping. If you have a softer transition the chance is that the amp sounds louder when in fact, it just distorts in a more pleasing way and hence you can extract more output power without distortion turning into too obnoxious. Soft clipping always robs some "clean" output power (remember that amps rate their output power at x % of THD) and many SS amp designers actually try to aim for the maximum output power, not "pleasant" overdrive characteristics. The latter can be done, it has been done, but it is generally more expensive, requires another kind of design approach and, as said, wastes maybe half of "clean" output power the amp could really produce, so making such a product and selling it to an average consumer might not be very easy or profitable. Such an amp also has a limited use (it pretty much only works with guitar amps that are about the only amps that benefit from overdriving).

There are many reasons why tube amps are held in higher regard than SS amps. The tube sound myth and nostalgia has a lot to do with it, so has the money spend on R&D by various amp companies (SS amps often tend to be the cheap, entry level products). The disappointment to earliest SS guitar amps didn't help much either in creating the myth that transistor amps equal bad tone. Anyway, there are many metalheads who would rather pick an Ampeg's SS or VH series amp over most (pro) tube amps and many jazz, acoustic or steel guitar guys would rather use some SS amp as well. On a contrary to popular belief that SS amps can only do the extremes well (either very clean or super hi-gain), even the blues tones can be acquired from SS amps: Both Kings (B.B. and Albert) used SS amps (Lab Series), Johnny Winter very much liked the Lab Gruppen's hybrid Axe-Amp and ZZ Top played Legend A30 hybrid on Eliminator. That's quite blues to me. The latter amp, by the way, was once titled the loudest 30W amp although its power amp is only a very conventional SS circuit. There goes that myth... Anyway, being on the know-how about guitar gear hasn't never exactly been the thing of majority of guitar players. I've seen too many examples of people who sing the tube praise but do not understand how an FX loop (or some other feature in an amplifier) works. I don't really think that the opinion of these types of people is really valid when it comes to anything a bit technical about amps.

[Jack1962]

I have to disagree with teemik on this one the tube amps are louder I will match any SS amp you can come up with against my 50 watt marshall any day of the week. and by the way ZZ Top only used a SS  amp on that one album and tour, to the best of my knowledge , and I live in Texas. Also the reason that MOST power amps a SS is the cost of building a 1000+ watt tube amp, the iron(transformers)alone would cost thousands of dollars. However , back to the bare bones facts , bro go with what you like , if it has the tone your looking for screw is tube or SS better , was best is what's best for you.
     

                                                   Rock On

[metalhead]

Nice to see Lab-Gruppens Axe mentioned. No wonder Johnny Winter liked it, its a gerat sounding amp.
BB,Allan Holdsworth, David Chastain and Ty Tabor are some famous users who have praised their Lab series amps but i seem to remember that Albert King used Acoustic 260 and 261 amps as did Chuck Berry at some stage of his career.
And as many times before has been mentioned :Other famous Acoustic users were Frank Marino, Ernie Isley, Pat Metheny, Frank Zappa and Robbie Krieger.List goes on......

And as for ZZ Top I believe they have used about everything under the sun at some stage, they most certainly used Rockman stuff........ :loco

As a personal recomendation: Everybody interested in current state of solid state amps should try Crate VTX 200 S  and Rocktron V50D  and  If possible the Pritchard Amp of their choice or Blue Tone.
All and all i think many people would be surprised if they would know what kind of gear has been used in many of their favourite records to achieve some of their favourite guitar sounds (that they believe were produced by using some fancy tube amps).  :tu:

[Jack1962]

Well put Metalhead , and very true , as I have state before(many times) tube or solid state is a matter a taste.

                                             Rock On

[ToneGrail]

For the type of music I play (Motown), I need an absolutely pristine uncompressed chimey tone.  I can't get this out of a tube amp, which is why I prefer amps like the JC-120, Acoustic Image Clarus, or Crate Powerblock.  I have a Silverface Bassman but it still compresses at higher volumes.

[Jack1962]

There are tons of pristinely clean tube amps(at higher volumes) however , they are also as rule your higher priced amps, I have a Ampeg V4 sitting on the bench right now that is that way at a ear splitting volume. With all that said if your playing thru a JC-120(original) there very hard to beat.

                                         Rock On