hey i rehoused a cr112 and made it a cr 212. i have it wired up like this
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/meckandelli012.jpg)
i dont know if i have it grounded right or whats going on. i dont know anything about amps and didnt know they would be this much trouble.
i have the little black wire from the fuse going to a screw in the side of the box.
the green wire was attached to the chassis before i tore it apart. the pc board was atttached to the chassis.
i took a wire from the screw hole that attached the pc board to the metal and ran it to a screw. the green wire from the power cord is attached here also.
You say you know Nothing about Amps?
Yet you are playing around with the mains :duh
I sense another Darwin Award coming soon 0:)
Take a breath and check you are still alive,,, if so take some better pictures of the wiring then We all have a better chance of helping.
THE GREEN Wire is connected to the case for Safety reasons,,, it's not just their to confuse the ignorant. :trouble
That fuse and White/Black/Black Are mains wires and if you mess up you can kill yourself. :-*
Phil.
Quote from: phatt on December 17, 2010, 06:58:47 AM
You say you know Nothing about Amps?
Yet you are playing around with the mains :duh
I sense another Darwin Award coming soon 0:)
No need to be rude. But you do have a good point, it can be very dangerous playing around with mains - even worse if you don't know what you are doing.
I sense another Darwin Award coming soon 0:)
yes im still alive. lol. i have read the shock hazard warnings on every amp forum ive been to.
that is all the wiring. this is a better pic
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/Meckandelli011.jpg)
the speaker wire is the output for the speakers
this is all the wiring. its all on the left side of the board. there is one black wire from the ps going to the switch and a black wire from the power cord going to the switch
The power cord should have black green and white wires:
White goes to fuse
black goes to switch
green goes to chassis
The power transformer black leads go to:
the Other side of the switch
The other side of the fuse
That transformer side of the fuse also goes to a .0027 capacitor which in turn also goes to ground
Hope this helps:
Thanks Joecool point taken,, but I just cringe when I see bad design (i.e. the mains fuse on the edge of a pcb only mm from the audio circuitry)
Then someone with little knowledge trying to modify same can easy leed to premature death. 8|
OK lets get on with it best we can.
Clampup,
I can't see the wiring clearly enough but Bry Melvin may see more than myself.
That Capacitor looking device could be a *Varistor* which would be in series with the mains and not to ground.
If it's a Capacitor then it would be across the mains wires and not to ground.
Here is a pic of what would be close to the wiring you have there.
The secondaries are obviously 2 reds and a black but the primary side you will have to track that yourself, so use my pic as guide only.
If this Amp was in my shed that Mains fuse would be *Permanantly removed* from the Audio PCB and put in a sealed jiffy box away from harm.
But the Main switch is still (I assume) on the front panel which (I assume) is Metal?
If so then the *EARTH* wire needs to be connected to that panel to be safe.
BTW that board looks like it is hanging it's weight from the pots?
If so it won't last long.
Best of luck, Phil.
Quotecan't see the wiring clearly enough but Bry Melvin may see more than myself.
Actually the info is USING A SCHEMATIC
QuoteThat Capacitor looking device could be a *Varistor* which would be in series with the mains and not to ground.
If it's a Capacitor then it would be across the mains wires and not to ground.
Again the schematic shows it as a cap and to ground.
I'd post the schematic but the forum keeps telling me it's here already so you might want to search for it.
Quote from: bry melvin on December 18, 2010, 10:53:42 AM
I'd post the schematic but the forum keeps telling me it's here already so you might want to search for it.
You could rename the file and then post it.
thanks for your help. i have the schem on paper and the assembly schem(this one lists the values of caps and resistors) i have this on pdf but i dont know how to post it and i dont think Crate would appreciate it very much. i talked to Crate and they dont have much info on any of the amps from the early days.
so let me see if i understand you guys correctly
-the green wire from the power cord needs to be connected to the metal panel i have attached to the front of the amp
-i need to figure out which black wire is the main. (on the pic from the led. there is a red wire, red, black from tranny. this black wire is attached to the busy end of the fuse and a .0027uf cap(c40)
Bry- thats how i have it hooked up except for the green wire. thats attached to a screw on the side of my amp(wood)
im wondering if the green wire is why it keeps shorting out
heres the schem
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/crate_cr-112_04.jpg)
A suggestion.
Open the pdf.
Magnify the area of confusion.
Print screen button (top of keyboard)
Open paint.
Hit Control V.
Save as Jpeg.
Post.
well that's how I do it?
Phil.
Point of information:
A varistor is a transient suppressor and would not be in series with the mains, it would be across them.
What you are thinking of is a thermistor, an resistor that drops in resistance as it gets warmer. Those ARE wired in sereis with the mains to reduce inrush current.
ANd this little amp has neither, as pointed out above, that is just a cap.
And on the amp,
WHich black wire is the main? The one that came up your power cord. The "mains" is another term for the power in your walls - what you get from the wall outlet.
The green wire from the power cord should be screwed directly to the metal chassis - the primary chassis, not some little sub-panel or extra hunk of metal. Screw it to whatever the power transformer is bolted to. Not having the green wire connected represents a possible shock hazzard, but it is not going to make the amp blow fuses.
Thanks for that correction Enzo.
Whoops My thermals are getting mixed with my mistors. :-[
In light of your timely correction then the mustard disc next to fuse is likely a *Thermistor* which are wired in *series with the mains, unless I'm way off again.
(I'm just going on the PCB pic on the first post where the tracks seem to follow that series path)
Either way without better pics or schemo of amp not a lot can be done by anyone.
As to chassis,, My concern is that there is none.
Phil.
amp doesn't have a thermistor...just a cap
hey heres part of the assem schem
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/assemschemII.jpg)
from left to right. red wire, red, black tranny. running up right side- black ground, white-power cord
thanks phat. i hope Crate doesnt get mad
what part of the schem do you guys need?
hey on the assem schem they list the TIPs as 120 and 125 (q5 and q6). i put in 122 and 127. found this here
http://www.harmonycentral.com/products/84348
4th and 5th psot down.
if they put these TIPs in and it worked why wont mine work?
Hi,
Well that helps a bit but still I have no idea where the extra black wire went or should go.
Schematic should tell you.
I'd leave it off as (I assume) the amp will work without that cap connected.
As to the power transistors swapping
If you put them in the wrong side the amp will surely blow fuses.
one will be a "npn" device and the other a "pnp" They are polar devices and only work one way.
Make damn sure you get them the right way around.
Phil.
Quote from: bry melvin on December 19, 2010, 12:01:05 PM
amp doesn't have a thermistor...just a cap
Thanks Chum, Something strange happening :loco as only *now* that I've submited another post did I see you actually posted part of the schematic.
WAS not there before??? Oh well no matter, thankyou for the clarification.
Cheers Phil.
i only posted part of it to keep from getting in trouble with Crate. though the amp is 30 years old i doubt it would matter. that is the assembly schematic. i hope it helps.
Post whatever you want on this amp, Crate won;t care.
Quote from: Enzo on December 23, 2010, 03:11:58 PM
Post whatever you want on this amp, Crate won;t care.
This is actually true from what I gather. Crate gives out schematics no questions asked. Not like Danelectro :trouble
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/assemschemIII.jpg)
the letters on the pic are where i have the wires connected. i have one black from power transformer and the black from the power cord going to the switch. the green wire is attached to a bolt going into the side of the amp.
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/crate_cr-112_04-1.jpg)
i hope you guys can see this.
cool new layout.
anything you guys need to get this amp running?
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
Quote from: clamup1 on December 28, 2010, 05:26:10 PM
cool new layout.
anything you guys need to get this amp running?
Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
I guess I'm a bit lost, what's not working on it at this point?
In reference to the TIP122/127 you put in, did you follow this advice?
Quote from: phatt on December 22, 2010, 08:02:54 AM
one will be a "npn" device and the other a "pnp" They are polar devices and only work one way.
Make damn sure you get them the right way around.
Phil.
Don't know on *your* computers, but on mine I click the poetsd schematic and partial layout and the stay stamp size, visible but unreadable.
Am I the only one?
I thought we had already posted this, sorry, here is the CR112
i put in the 122 and the 127 the same way the 110, 115 came out.
i was thinking that my prob was starting to sound like the op with the Marshall. i will investigate and get back with you.
*****update**************
the 122 is npn
127 pnp
i believe i got them in right.
(http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq63/trout-lips/CRIV.jpg)
here is that section of the board
hey i was looking at the layout (data sheet) and i think that i have the pnp in backwards. what could or is blown? did i fubar some things up or is it fixable?
Quotedid i fubar some things up
Maybe. Probably.
Quoteor is it fixable?
On our benches, in 15 minutes.
By remote control?? :-\
Anyway, it's a pity you messed with it to begin with, because it was originally a nice little garage amp; around 20 W at best, which can not drive 2 12" speakers.
To be more precise it can not drive 4 ohms.
Sorry :(
Ouch,, Murphy's law says if there is a wrong way to insert a part then that's usually what's wrong when it refuses to work.
Might be time to invest in a light bulb limiter before you waste money on another set of transistors. 8|
Phil.
so once i fix this thing, if i unplug one of the speakers it should work right? would having both speakers plugged in when i turn it on blow fuses?
I think *today* your problem is electronic.
Driving 4 ohms will overheat it but might even not burn it, because the power transformer itself is weak.
need to get a bigger power transformer?
i think that one of the original TIPs was flipped over and screwed to the heat sink. (i had to unscrew it to read it) but im not sure. i didnt take pics before i tore it apart.
i think im gonna park this thing for a while, this whole project has ticked me off
hey guys, the 127 was in backwards. now i need to find a piece of steel to attach the green wire to. i almost burned a hole in the carpet.
its kind of dissapointing that i cant make this a 212. ill save the other speaker for another amp i guess.
thanks for your help
actually you CAN make this a 2 12... Use something like Weber or Jensen mod low wattage 12s rated at 16 ohms in parallel
...you could also use 4 ohm speakers in series
just don;t use high wattage speakers...jensen mod 12-35s 16 ohm will probably work well.
however I think you'd be happier with the sound of something like a pair of weber 10F100t's 10" 15 watt speakers 16 ohm
but much more expensive.
You could probably get adequate volume out of a pair of Celestion Rocket 50s at 16 ohm too if you could find them.
i bought 2 Celestion Red white and blues. 8 Ohm. i thought this amp had a higher wattage than 20. oh well.
wow the webers are built to order. cool
im not getting any sound so i think i have some trannies to fix.
Quote from: clamup1 on December 30, 2010, 10:00:02 AM
i bought 2 Celestion Red white and blues. 8 Ohm. i thought this amp had a higher wattage than 20. oh well.
wow the webers are built to order. cool
im not getting any sound so i think i have some trannies to fix.
You could always run those two speakers in series and have it at 16 ohms.
ive got them run in parallel. cool now i have to figure out whats blown.
looks like parrallel there series would be something like : amp output+ ->+speaker1- -> +speaker2 - -> back to amp
Quote from: clamup1 on December 30, 2010, 06:16:08 PM
ive got them run in parallel. cool now i have to figure out whats blown.
I thought it wouldn't run at 4 ohms....which is what you'd have running them in parallel.
Parallel means that the + on each speaker is hooked to the + on the amp and the - on each speaker is hooked to the - on the amp.
Series means you have the + on speaker #1 hooked to the + on the amp, the - on speaker #1 hooked to the + on speaker #2 and the - on speaker #2 hooked to the - on the amp.