Line 6 Spider 112/210 debug, not the II, not the III, the first one

[joecool85]

Keep us posted, always good to hear about an amp getting repaired instead of tossed  :tu:

[scooperman]

Installed a new LM4765 power amp chip and .... nothing.  1kHz sinewave input, crank the knobs all the way and just get a small distorted signal at the output.  Hmmmm.

Ooops.  The LM4765 tab was supposed to be isolated from ground.  Sure enough, there is a little plastic isolation bushing lying on my workbench from the disassembly, it has been so many months since I took it apart I forgot the bushing.  So I killed the new amp chip.   Slap forehead.

Ordered another new LM4765, installed properly and .... it works!  Then I had to download a Line 6 Pilot's Manual to figure out what the buttons and knobs do, but anyway its all working fine now.   I had been so frustrated with this repair, I was ready to toss it.  

But now, I will keep it around for a while, it really has decent sound.  I would give high marks to the clean and twang models, the blues and crunch are OK, but not so much to the other two models.  You can access all of the amp's features from the front panel, by pressing various combinations of buttons, but that's not something you want to mess with on stage.  If you don't have the manual printed out, every time you change a model the knobs settings are reloaded from the model in memory, so looking at the knobs will not tell you where things are set.  To find out, you have to press TAP, spin the model knob to let it know what you want to find out, then spin each tone and effect knob one at a time until LEDs tell you to stop spinning, then you know where the model equals the knob setting.  So like a lot of digital amps, you really need the footpedal thing if you are going to do a lot of model changing.

While I was waiting for parts to fix this amp,  I acquired another Yamaha DG-80, it arrived on the same day that I got the Line 6 Spider working.  After fooling around with the Line 6 for a while, I really appreciate the motorized pots on the Yamaha, when you change the model the software runs the motors, turns the pots to the new settings.  The Yamaha is just easier to set up, easier to store your custom models in memory, it stores more, and basically they just did a much better job of modelling;  the Line 6 definitely has limited character, with the Yamaha you can find more of everything.

[joecool85]

Glad you got it working.  Too bad about the IC.  I always order two when doing any repair like that "just in case".

[EDWARDEFFECT1]

glad the chip helped....ed!

[jspotts02835]

I have a Spider 112 that's exhibited the same symptoms (no output). Actually, it began with intermittent cutouts, and now output dies almost immediately. When this has occurred I've plugged in headphones and verified that the preamp/modeling side of the amp is working normally. After reading this post I took the electronics out of the cabinet. My board doesn't have the SM caps that were dropped from earlier revs. There's also no trace of burning or arcing around the power amp chip.

Diagnosing and repairing this amp seems beyond my skill level. I've already paid a local guy (RI) to check it out about two years ago when the failures were intermittent, and he claimed it wouldn't fail for him. I don't have any confidence in him. So, my question to you guys who I assume to be pros is, could I ship the chassis to one of you since you seem to be familiar with the vagaries of this amp? I really like it, especially for it's clean tones, and I'd rather not junk it.

If interested please PM me or let me know how I can reach you to negotiate the details. Many thanks.

Jeff

[joecool85]

I have a Spider 112 that's exhibited the same symptoms (no output). Actually, it began with intermittent cutouts, and now output dies almost immediately. When this has occurred I've plugged in headphones and verified that the preamp/modeling side of the amp is working normally. After reading this post I took the electronics out of the cabinet. My board doesn't have the SM caps that were dropped from earlier revs. There's also no trace of burning or arcing around the power amp chip.

Diagnosing and repairing this amp seems beyond my skill level. I've already paid a local guy (RI) to check it out about two years ago when the failures were intermittent, and he claimed it wouldn't fail for him. I don't have any confidence in him. So, my question to you guys who I assume to be pros is, could I ship the chassis to one of you since you seem to be familiar with the vagaries of this amp? I really like it, especially for it's clean tones, and I'd rather not junk it.

If interested please PM me or let me know how I can reach you to negotiate the details. Many thanks.

Jeff

I would gladly take a look at it for you but by the time you pay me, pay shipping both ways and pay for whatever parts may be entailed...it could be a bad idea financially on your part.

If the headphone jack works that is a sign to me that the power amp chip probably works fine.  It almost sounds like you have a bad solder/connection to the speaker rather than a bad power chip.  It could also be a loose resistor or cap.  I would open the amp up, take the guts out, plug it in and turn up the volume so you can hear static etc on the speaker (if it were working).  Then poke around with a plastic pen.  Gently tap/wiggle all capacitors and resistors as well as wires.  Good chance you'll find a problem with one of the connections.  Reheat the solder and away you go.

[jspotts02835]

Heeding your caution about costs, I decided to do some more investigating since the chassis was already out of the cabinet. Before I even started probing for loose connections/wire I noticed something else, a blob of what I assume to be white thermal conductive paste on the edge of the PCB adjacent to the leads of the power amp chip (right side as viewed from the front). This gunk was on top of some of the SMT pads where some of the caps dropped from later revs of the amp would have been. I assumed that if this stuff is thermally conductive it might be electrically conductive, or at a minimum, have some sort of resistive or capacitive effect. At any rate, I cleaned this stuff off the pads, hooked things up and, voila, the amp is working like a champ. I'm still wary since it used to fail intermittently, but I'm cautiously optimistic that this was the source of my problems.

[joecool85]

Glad you got it working, but I'd be interested to know how the "goop" got there and what it was.  Thermal paste is normally thermally conductive but electronically non conductive.

[phatt]

I think you will find Some are conductive.
And could cause the very problem described here.

All credit too *jspots* who has simply used some common sense and powers of observation and solved a problem that may have otherwise rendered the equipment useless.

These are the sorts of issues that will happen more as new designs are churned out the door with the latest dsp chip and zero testing for potential breakdowns.

I had a zoom 9030 efx unit here with so much heat it just kept shutting down in summertime.
That is how close they push the limit. One small 2mm slip of alloy on the chip and it was fine.
All to save the extra 5cents in production cost. :duh
Phil.

[J M Fahey]

Regular silicone_grease+zinc_oxide thermal paste is non conductive, because both its components are not, (that's why they were chosen to begin with), but there is a "new ... improved" Silver-something paste, sold as the best for overclocked processors and stuff like that, which claims to be loaded with silver powder (which VERY probably is aluminum powder) and may be conductive.
Maybe somebody applied a drop of it to improve cooling and some of it got squeezed out as described.
Or some metal shaving or solder drop stuck to it and was bridging something it shouldn't.
It happened to me sometimes in my early days, when I drilled TO3 transistor holes in heatsinks.
Later I started swabbing each hole with an oil-wet Q-Tip before mounting and the problem stopped.
It was incredible: you would look at the hole and see nothing in it; then swab it and see shiny metallic spots on the wet cotton tip.
Oh well.
Same happens when you drill an extra hole on an already built amplifier: thermal paste seems to have a magnetic power of attraction for all kinds of debris.
Oh well 2.

[Englishmike]

Hi Chaps, first post. I have bought a dead Spider 2 210 with hum on sound and channel selection knob broken.
Fixed the channel selection then the OUTPUT LM 4796 blew in a lot of black smoke. I found the insulator washer had been compromised.
Changed that then still no output. A couple of other guys had the same problem. Mine was the -5v was down to -0.7. (Large signal inputs , or switching to the INSANE channel gave a very low and crackly output which was very intermittent.) SO changed the 79L05 -5V regulator for another and that worked great. Now I have sound.  Then found the treble and Rev do not work. No its not the pots! I checked the volts to the pins of the TLC542. The volts were OK so I now have to change the CHIP. will it ever end? One question , how loud is the clean channel suppose to be on these stereo spiders ( yes no bridge in this just seprate channels). Mine isnt that loud although on insane it nearly tears my ears off ... Cheers all hope this post might help some one.